Dark Cove

[vp612]

I truly believe that you have no opinion, because your opinion is absurd.You can see these jump ups like anyone else that has access to figures.All you are doing is trying to incite a riot and at that you are doing a good job.YOu are talking to someone who has looked at thousands of numbers and telling him he doesn\'t know what he is looking at.You are not fooling this guy.Maker is just the latest in a long line of guys, they can\'t catch.

[high roller]

Jerry What Supreme Arrogance - As the Robber-Barron\'s said before their fall - \"Let the Public be Damned\"!

[vp612]

The interesting thing about this horse is that he had good back turf numbers, but here is the thing that tells the tale.He had a spacey  line which means he WAS a hurt horse,maker, great horseman that he is not only got him back to his old self but probably got a new top out of him.Terrific,just terrific.

[high roller]

What your actually saying is that Sight was making you look foolish because she has credibility.

You also have delusions of Grandeur in thinking so many important people read what\'s on this board. All the serious debate takes place each day on TDN.

I\'ll quote something Len Friedman told me years ago about you - You are a frustrated gambler who desperately wants to be a big player in this game.

It\'s sad to see you spending so much time engaging on this board day and night instead of improving your product.

A guy like Mike Maker works his ass off 18 hours a day - he pointed for that meet and had many drop-downs so Ramsey could win the title again.

Guys like Ramsey and TAP\'s clients can buy and sell you all day - They are laughing all the way to the bank while you and your Kool-Aid drinker\'s slowly go broke!

[TGJB]

Vito-- If you mean the one today, yes he had good back figures. But this is going to come up a new top on anyone\'s figures. And Maker is one of the few move-up guys to be able to do that on turf. Mullins was another for a while, but there aren\'t many.

[vp612]

The point I am making is that he took a horse who was off form and got a new top out of him, and yes you are right,most \"GREAT Trainers\" don\'t move them up on the turf.

[TGJB]

HR-- now my feelings are hurt and it\'s all your fault.

It\'s funny, years ago there was a gal teller at GP  Friedman used to... well, date,and she said he told her I was a genius. Thanks for straightening me out.

[bellsbendboy]

Jerry not many trainers/owners would have misfired here.

Longhunter is a multiple stakes winner on the grass with a Curragh score in the Blenheim .  In short, the Halling gelding goes from a world class conditioner to a very poor one and the inevitable slide begins.


Stake-nowhere

Stake- beat two

3X- seventh

40K nowhere

25K nowhere

Then a 100 day layoff before the Keeneland run April 6th at seven furlongs.  The horse runs off with Robbie opening a four length lead against 16K stock.  But the horse does not act on anything other than turf and is fit enough for much shorter.

Maker wins the shake, shortens up, goes green with Ramon and even the usually dense NY bettors find this one.  

Maker runs his horses down peoples throats.  He is very personable, works his ass off and kmows who the idiots are.  He claims from them and runs them as cheap as he can.  One race this Keeneland meet he ran a horse and there were SEVENTEEN claim slips in the box. I know this race went fast but he figured major league tough to beat.

bbb

[TGJB]

Yup, that\'s it. I\'m gonna throw away the figures.

[TGJB]

For laughs, anyone have Makers stats at Kee for the 5 years preceding this one?

[jma11473]

I don\'t have the standings back to 2008 (Maker won the Fall 2008 training title so he probably had a high percentage that meet) but in the prior five meetings he\'s been remarkably consistent.

Fall 2010: 7/47, 15%
Spring 2011: 7/44, 15%
Fall 2011: 6/37, 16%
Spring 2012: 6/42, 14%
Fall 2012: 10/60, 17%

then
Spring 2013: 25/76, 33%

[high roller]

You cannot take those stats at face value - this meet they were a large number of drop-downs that were heavy favorites.

[TGJB]

He just learned how to horse husband. Late bloomer.

When the Derby stuff dies down I\'ll run his Kee starters. I\'m guessing the new/paired tops comes in over 50%. Which has nothing to do with who they run against.

[plasticman]

You know High Roller what Bill Parcells (horse owner himself) says \"you are what your record says you are\".

As far as all those dropdowns go.....seems to me that if you are devaluing your clients assets (even if its at the suggestion of the client) you shouldnt have to work 18 hours a day to win. I know the guy outworks everyone according to you, but any halfway competent trainer can win running 40s for 20 or 20s for 10.

[jma11473]

high roller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You cannot take those stats at face value - this
> meet they were a large number of drop-downs that
> were heavy favorites.


He asked for the stats, I gave him the stats. Since you\'re obviously at the barn watching him work 18 hours a day nursing all these horses to the peak of fitness, you can object all you want.