Maker/Dark Cove/TG figures

[Badride1]

Mr Brown

          To insinuate a guy is cheating because your numbers do not figure a horse he claimed is ridiculous.   Mike has been over 20Pct on his life on any claim, whether its a stake horse or a cheap POS.   The guy is simply better than anybody else doing what he does.

          There is no magic moving a horse like Dark Cove up,  Mr Brown, besides a voodoo number what do you know about Dark Cove?   Do you know what was wrong with him, do you know why Mike sent him to the farm for 8 months?   If you don\'t know the answer to either of those its completely irresponsible to even insinuate cheating.  

         I assume you watch this game Mr Brown, I\'m assuming besides making figures and money off the public you pay attention to this game, and business.   Do you know Mike?   Do you know anything about Mike, Do you know anything about his program?   Again, if not then you shouldn\'t be throwing around accusations that are completely unsubstantiated.    

         I will say this Mr Brown....   I have been in and out of these barns.  I have seen all these top guys, how they do it, there isn\'t a guy in the business as sharp as Mike.   You  may find a guy who\'s more personable, but you will never EVER find one as sharp.   Threes nothing going on over at Track side but a guy who outworks his peers and truly has a clue what hes doing.  

         You have an owner who aims to win a title at a meet and will run horses down your throat.   You have a jock that\'s riding at the top of his game, and at the top of anybody Else\'s game.   You have a trainer who\'s head and shoulders above any guy doing this, and possibly any guy who\'s ever done this...What should be the outcome of that equation?   5 Percent?   I\'m surprised Mike isn\'t 40pct when I see how stupid the rest of his peers are.  How clueless they are.  Standing around a rail drinking coffee not even watching their horses.  Not that it matters, they wouldn\'t know what they were watching anyhow.  

          You should give Mike a call and talk to him Mr Brown.   Let him explain it to you so you (as an insider, or big player) understand exactly why these horses get better with him.     Then you wont say things so slanderous, and ridiculous.

[Wrongly]

Yikes!  OJ is innocent and the two guys in Boston are just being framed!

[TGJB]

Thank you, I understand things much better. Except I don\'t understand why these things just took effect recently, why the recent PERFORMANCES are so much better, measurably, than he got before, in many case with the same horses.

After we get past the Derby I\'ll post his Kee runners and let the fun begin.

[makomaniac]

Only one thing makes him better, Performance Enhancing Drugs. The equine version of what Lance Armstrong was using.Until the labs determine the exact version of the steroid they are using they will never uncover it in a drug screening.

Look at what is going on in England.The trainer for Goldophin was just given an eight year suspension for steroid use.Today in the DRF another world class trainer has come under scrutiny for the same violations. Anyone with any knowledge of racing knows the position of Godophin\'s owner and the embarrassment this has caused.
 
Cheating has become so commonplace through steroids that owners and trainers actually believe they are doing nothing illegal.The days of training with just exercise, hay and oats is over.The industry needs to provide the betting public with full disclosure on what these horses are being treated for. The model seems to work fine in Hong Kong.Without some degree of transparency this industry is doomed.
Are we the betting public believed to be so naive that the \"super trainers\" have suddenly in the last two years discovered revolutionary new training regimens?

[Badride1]

Post his numbers from all claims, its also important to post who hes claiming these horses from.   Its also crucial to know how Mike runs his program vs the guys he claims from.  

Keep in mind Mr Brown, Mr Ramsey runs them down your throat at Keeneland, and Mrs Ramsey isn\'t in great health.   That meet alone was extremely important to everybody in the barn.   Not for Mike, for his best client, and his wife.   Its not as simple as a figure...... there are so many variables.   They loaded up at GSP with the sole purpose of dominating Keeneland.  Its not just a wing ding crap shoot, those horses are prepped and pointed.   Mike is one of the few guys who can still do that, zero in on one and make sure they are ready for optimal run.   That has nothing to do with any magic potion, it has everything to do with Mike being head and shoulders above his peer group.  

I had 3 guys come to me with 3500 dollars 6 years ago.   We bought one horse, this 3 man group is still on the games money, and turned a steady profit with Mike.  Before they transitioned over they were bleeding money ready to be out of business.   Hes a small time owners dream.

[Badride1]

Mako

       I think you as the betting public are doing yourself a great disservice if you actually believe that.   If you have any idea how it works on a daily basis you would change your tune.   Why dont you claim one with him instead of betting.   You ll get the vet bill for it.   You can post it on here.   Mr Brown said he claims some, you guys can be partners.   There is a stake horse running at Calder for 25k, He just got drummed by 12.   He may be in for 16 next time he goes.   Mr Browns numbers will find him, or you can message me and Ill tell you which one he is.  We can all take a piece.

[TGJB]

Another guy with the drop downs.

Since you missed the earlier memo-- we measure things entirely differently here, and FAR more accurately, than those that look at wins. Running against inferior competition makes your chance of WINNING better, but does not make you FASTER. When we post his data you will see these horses suddenly got FASTER.

Get it?

There has been a ton of stuff on this, dozens of posts, you are very late to the party and way behind the conversation. Catch up on your reading. And my strong suggestion is to wait until after the Derby when we post his Kee sheets to comment further. That assumes you have used our data (or similar) and will have some idea what you\'re looking at.

[Badride1]

Mr Brown

         My fear is I \"get it\"  more than you do.   That\'s a big problem because these guys seem to think you have some superior opinion on this situation, which you do not at all.   Selling sheets does not make you a chemist,a vet, or any other designation on EPO, or doping.   I may be late to the party here, but I have an extremely valid opinion.   Im speaking from first hand experience, not trying to be a dick, just giving you the true side of the story, opposed to just making up some wild scenario, or accusation.    It is completely reckless to lead the lemmings to a judgement.      

        I understand this game well, extremely well.   I hope to stick around here a while and teach everybody a thing or two about this great game we all enjoy so much.

[phil23]

Do you understand how to read numbers and what across the board jump ups imply?

[Badride1]

Yes I understand every aspect of this business, gambling included

Do you understand a horse going from a Darrin Miller, or a Ken Mcpeek to a guy like Maker.   Have you been in those barns, all 3, yes or no?

[phil23]

Sell crazy someplace else. We\'re all stocked up here.

[Badride1]

Phil

          I think its crazy to levy an absolute opinion on somebody without first hand knowledge of the person, or the situation.   If that makes me crazy, so be it.  Id much prefer to talk about horses, races, or claiming horses.   I know why Mikes horses move up, and its not because of EPO, or pixie dust.  Its because the guy is a true master of his craft.   Its like Lebron playing pick up hoops at the YMCA, what can the outcome be besides complete domination?

[TGJB]

How about horses going from Maker to Maker? Older horses with years of established figures, jumping up at the same time, running tops or new tops. Like the horse this string is named for. They suddenly became faster?

You are way out of your depth. This is not the backstretch. But it\'s that time of year, everyone shows up here.

Tread-- in thinking about that top/new top thing, it\'s even more striking because they\'re almost all older horses, and on synth and turf.

[Badride1]

Mr Brown  

      First of all DC was trained by Mcpeek and had a major hole, he was given a lot of time because Mike knew what he was.   Prior to that you have worst turf trainer in the country who never stretched him out or had the forethought to put him on grass in Zito, and then you have Mcpeek.  So are we to assume in his seasons prior to Maker he reached his potential?  

      Also this is a horse who needs that extra distance, hes quirky, and that distance hit him square.  How many horses in the Elk were in top form.  Attfield breaks down, Ioya bigtime is a shell of his previous years form, Al Khalil is older and has lost a step.   So lets take those 3 out of the equation, who logically do you use in there?   A horse that even at the age of 6 has never been squeezed or established losers, for loser connections?  

      Mr Brown, Im not out of depth trust me.  I don\'t see how a guy who follows the game with the vigor you do cant recognize the difference in Maker, vs a Mcpeek or Zito

[TGJB]

I do see the difference. That\'s the point. And 2 years ago when it was McPeek who was getting the jumpups at Kee and Maker was just another trainer I saw that too.

Maker had Dark Cove for several races before this one, and he didn\'t run anywhere near the figure he ran now. And again, the competition has nothing to do with this-- until you understand that you don\'t belong in this conversation. Seriously.

Since you\'re there, who was Maker\'s vet at Kee? Does Ramsey have his own? Nothing to hide, right?