Derby Week wrap up

[TGJB]

What he said.

[miff]

For the sake of accuracy which is sometimes lacking here.

In a thread entitled Derby Week Wrap Up, Jerry Brown wrote about me:

\"As I said after I banned her, I liked having Sight here too. That\'s why after saying I was banning her I cut it to three months. At which point she put up three posts, leaving me no choice.

I\'ve heard since then that she does have a history in other forums, maybe someone here can tell you where she\'s blasting me.\"


Jerry Brown:

I do not post in any \"other forums\" - zero.
I have no \"history\" in other forums.
I have never \"blasted you\" anywhere, and have no intention of doing so.

Rest assured, I have no desire to return to the Thorough-graph board.  I was on it for 7 years, thanks.

Any TG user that would like my e-mail can contact Miff.

Sighthound

[Eight Belles]

moosepalm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> From my vantage point, it was both a problem of
> what was being said, and who was saying it.  If
> one of the hip shooters who had been spouting
> gibberish all week made similar unsubstantiated
> proclamations, we would have been filing them in
> the same refuse pile as all the other unvarnished
> bilge that was inflicted upon this board.  But,
> this was a licensed professional with a great deal
> of expertise who offered opinions on numerous
> subjects with ex cathedra bearing.  All well and
> good when it was well documented, but some of it
> wasn\'t, and distinctions were not made, in terms
> of presentation, about what was being
> substantiated and what wasn\'t.  So, it all mushed
> together as if it was fact, when at least a couple
> of things could not be known by virtually anyone
> with the kind of certitude with which it was being
> presented.  And when substantiation was repeatedly
> requested, it still was not provided.  A person
> with a certain expertise is held to higher
> standards than the rest of us who traffic in the
> everyday BS of the realm.  Was this a capital
> crime?  I\'m not close enough to the issue to weigh
> the merits, but I can certainly see why it would
> piss off someone who is.

A total mischaracterization.  Her opinion was that the charges made here often regarding certain trainers cheating are unsubstantiated, and she believed it was unfair to tarnish those trainers\' character without substantiation.  You may not agree with her taking a stance in their defense, but it\'s a respectable position, one that is at the heart of our legal system.  If she was wrong, then the way to show that to readers is to present the proof, not banishment.

[TGJB]

That is completely false-- that\'s not what got her banned. What got her banned, as I have made clear in detail several times, started with her statement that drug cheaters are usually caught, and her saying the basis of it was that she was a vet on the backside and therefore KNEW. I asked her to back up that statement, especially in light of factual information I have presented here showing that most horses aren\'t even tested, let alone tested correctly, let alone for the right things, and that the most famous vet in the game has admitted to cheating on a huge scale for years, and got away with it.

Her refusal to either back up or withdraw the statement got her 3 months. Her immediate posts after that got her banned. The rest-- meaning any opinions-- has nothing to do with this.

[TGJB]

Mike-- that was a mistake. I know what I\'m talking about, and was getting emails and calls about this before I banned her. Drop it.

I\'m leaving that up, which is my final nice act about this (some you don\'t know). Leave it alone.

[moosepalm]

Eight Belles Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>>
> A total mischaracterization.  Her opinion was that
> the charges made here often regarding certain
> trainers cheating are unsubstantiated, and she
> believed it was unfair to tarnish those trainers\'
> character without substantiation.  You may not
> agree with her taking a stance in their defense,
> but it\'s a respectable position, one that is at
> the heart of our legal system.  If she was wrong,
> then the way to show that to readers is to present
> the proof, not banishment.


If that had been all she said, I\'m pretty sure she\'d still be here.  It certainly was not what I was referencing.  I had assumed it was obvious enough that it didn\'t need to be itemized, but evidently I was wrong.

[makomaniac]

Everyone knew that Lance Armstrong and Roger Clemens were cheating. The authorities even had insider information providing an investigative path.It is not that easy to prove guilt in the short term.Just because you can not prove something beyond a reasonable doubt does not mean that you are innocent.

Horseplayers are being robbed by these cheaters!!! Impossible to run new tops at 6 or 7 years of age on surfaces and distances that you have been running on previously.Same principle in baseball or cycling.You can not throw a fastball at a higher velocity at 40 years of age than you did at 30. This is why the baseball purists started looking at Clemens.Not physically possible!!Just because I can\'t prove it doesn\'t mean it isn\'t happening. Maybe you should take up OJ\'s hunt for the real killer.

 Stop saying it is slander. I am a handicapper of over 40 years and play NY tracks 5 days a week. I also have 29 years of experience as law enforcement executive and have personally supervised major investigations. These \"Super Trainers\" are cheating! They are using performance enhancing drugs. They are guilty of a crime if tampering with the outcome of a parimutual event Those caught should be treated as such.The authorities that oversee racing have very little expertise in race track management. Most are political appointees that are marking time, collecting a salary and hope that there is no controvery.

[APny]

AMEN!!! Makomaniac finally put into text what I\'ve been wanting to say on here for weeks.  What do you people who think the game is relatively clean attribute the recent Ramsay/Maker win percentage to?  Do you really think this outfit is just placing their horses in the right places??? Glad we have TGJB to vocalize to the higher ups what us bettors have known for years...the game is getting out of control!!!

[CHOWDERMAN]

what i don\'t understand is if they can convict college players of point shaving, why can\'t the gov\'t get these trainers and owners the same...

not a legal expert, but why can\'t the gov\'t pursue a rico case against them, as did prosecutor giuliani did to the mob in the 80\'s..

do you think the usual suspects would still try their techniques if faced with a federal crime...that\'s probably what is needed to clean it up...

[bellsbendboy]

Yeah Mako!

If you have been betting NY for that time and still have money you are the best; although i must confess, i do not see you doing much jury duty.

I must ask you a question.

If 90% of cheating, is NOT drug, or PED related, is it cheating?

bbb

[makomaniac]

I refuse to play any claiming races where Rudy, Jacobson or Ness are involved. Also any horses owned by Riccio, Dubb, or Moss in a race is a pass as well.These owners seem to gravitate to the ususal suspects. They are employing several trainers now that Dutrow has been banished. Pretty much all claiming races! In Pk4\'s and Pk6 I usually wheel those races if I have two singles elsewhere.

Less has become more. Days of churning are over. You have to be ultra selective to survive. Best value is pedigree plays in maiden and grass races. You can\'t beat the Sire Stats and sibling info from Thorograph.