Betting after the bell

[Boscar Obarra]

Lots of talk elsewhere about odds drops on frontrunners.

 I don\'t see this in NY, where I mostly watch the pools, but here\'s how it could be going down at other tracks.


 If they can cancel bets up to a certain size within x seconds, at certain shops,  the computer guys could open multiple accounts, place bets very late, then either issue the cancel or NOT, depending on how the horse breaks.

  Who is auditing the shops?

[plasticman]

Why would shops let you cancel after the race starts? I was under the impression that the only cancels that are allowed are from live tellers at live tracks. Those tellers, some of them, are permitted to cancel per certain state laws, i don\'t if adws have the same cancel capabilities.

[milwmike]

I have accounts with Twin Spires and Xpressbet and both allow you to cancel wagers up to the start.

[Boscar Obarra]

If there is any loophole , anywhere on the planet, the wise guys are all over it.

 Bet on it.

[jerry]

Maybe they use the same gimmick the high frequency traders use although a millisecond wouldn\'t seem to be much of an advantage. I think the pool security is just lax. If the Fix Six crew could pull it off, anybody with a bit more acumen can.

[Boscar Obarra]

I\'m quite familiar with hft antics, but it\'s not applicable to horse racing.

 Tracks should demand to have access to a reliable audit trail of ALL hub activity, in order to detect abuse.

 Prayer is not a reliable deterrent.

 PS  Anything they do to cut off abuse, will probably cost them handle, wonder if that might taint the decision making process.

[Fustercluck]

Back when I worked for one of the ADWs the tote system was controlled by the stewards.  Some tracks like Remington were notorious for shutting down wagering as they were loading in the gates, before the break resulting in a wave of calls.  I would imagine open and close is logged even in this backwards technology but I doubt any of the vendors have an interest in disclosure.

[Tavasco]

I think you have an excellent point. Who is auditing?

NOTE - I do not know how the totalisator system actually works! The following is based solely on my supposition, Which if true is alarming.

If there is wrong doing very likely the shop/hub (or their geeks) are at the root of the crime/collusion. IMO, Its more likely the time interval is seconds not milliseconds. A meaningful increment.

I presume, The remote subsystems collect wagers and batch them to the central (tote) @ regular short time intervals. The central system can\'t reject a batch or bet (in principle) because the point of sale transaction is already complete.

Time definition is a vulnerability. If time is defined by a date-time-stamp data element generated remotely.  Well a small offshore  or offtrack originator may not have any oversight. A corrupted time stamp received within the real time window, surely seconds after gate opens, gets in. Possibly each race gets a final closing batch which includes corrections adjustments etc a common technique in like architectures.

One solution being a singular real time web based system without remote feeder subsystems. Adios hubs. Hello pool integrity. Technically simple, politically, In my best John McEnroe... You can\'t be serious!

What I\'m most curious about is who will advertise on CC\'s nasal strip. NY NY

[billk5300s]

I\'ve seen this happen on many occasions at smaller tracks but dismissed it because the pools are small.  I also noticed that 90% of the time the \"tilt\" occurred on a front runner.  I work in I/T and can say that auditing is only as strong as the weakest link in the process.  I believe that the best recourse is that if you see it, report it.  If they have enough complaints they\'ll dig a little deeper when they audit.  I don\'t believe it happens a lot but I do believe it\'s happening.