Count Fleet

[joemama]

Bought this book called Champions from DrF some years ago.  It has the pp.\'s for the best horses of the past.

So I got to looking up Count Fleet.  He won the triple crown in 1943.  What caught my attention was that while he won the triple crown that year , the Withers was run in between the Preakness and the Belmont stakes.  Count Fleet won that race also. So between May 1st and June 5th Count Fleet won the triple crown and the Withers Stakes also. quite impressive.

He only raced 6 times as a 3yo and won them all.  Never raced past 3, and accumulated a record out of 21 races 16 wins,4 seconds and 1 third.

Having horses that raced this often and so consistently well surely was one of the main reasons that horse racing was so popular back in those days.  Besides there wasn\'t as much to do back then as there is now.

[richiebee]

joemama Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bought this book called Champions from DrF some
> years ago.  It has the pp.\'s for the best horses
> of the past.
>
> So I got to looking up Count Fleet.  He won the
> triple crown in 1943.  What caught my attention
> was that while he won the triple crown that year ,
> the Withers was run in between the Preakness and
> the Belmont stakes.  Count Fleet won that race
> also. So between May 1st and June 5th Count Fleet
> won the triple crown and the Withers Stakes also.
> quite impressive.
>
> He only raced 6 times as a 3yo and won them all.
> Never raced past 3, and accumulated a record out
> of 21 races 16 wins,4 seconds and 1 third.
>
> Having horses that raced this often and so
> consistently well surely was one of the main
> reasons that horse racing was so popular back in
> those days.  Besides there wasn\'t as much to do
> back then as there is now.

Joe:

Check out Spectacular Bid\'s two and three year old campaigns leading up to his
Derby and Preakness wins. I think he won 5 or 6 stakes as a 3YO prepping for
his Derby win.

[joemama]

I counted 5 stakes wins as a 3 year old before the triple crown races.  The bid had previously wind 5 straight stakes as a 2 year old also, to make it 10 straight wins.  then took down the Derby and Preakness. Saw the Bid run at Arlington Park.  2.10, 2.10 and 2.10.  What a horse.

[SoCalMan2]

it is hard to say when the triple crown started.  I believe there was no such thing as the triple crown when the first horse to win it won it.  For at least the first 30 years of its history, the races were run at different times and even different distances.  In one year, I remember the Derby and the Preakness were 4 days apart.  

It seems to me it would be very logical for Pimlico to run the Preakness on July 4. If there were a July 4 Preakness, I think more horses would run throughout the whole series, and I think the crescendo of a Derby Belmont winner going for the triple crown in the Preakness on July 4 would be far more intense than what currently happens.  Maybe even get some non-racing people interested in it.

[mjellish]

I hear you.  I understand the purist point about keeping the Triple Crown intact.  But every year a few of these colts are ruined by the grueling sequence of 3 races at 3 different tracks and distances in 5 weeks. We don\'t get to see them run in the late summer, let alone as 4 yr olds.  Would probably be better for the sport if they did.

[joemama]

They did move these races around somewhat .e.g. in 1920 the Preakness and Belmont were about 3 weeks apart.  Strange that Man O War did not run in the Kentucky Derby.  Won the Preakness, Withers and Belmont Stakes tho.

[SoCalMan2]

SoCalMan2 Wrote:
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In one year, I remember the Derby and the Preakness were 4 days apart.

Just to be clear, I do not remember this from personal recollection, I remember it from looking at the same book that Joemama is referring to.

Count Fleet is not the only triple crown winner to have run in other races between the Derby and the Belmont.  I think there was actually a triple crown winner who lost in an allowance race in the middle of winning the triple crown (I could be wrong on that).  Also, I think Citation won the Jersey Derby in the middle of his triple crown (do I recall correctly that Spend A Buck chose to run in this same race rather than the Preakness?).

[SoCalMan2]

SoCalMan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SoCalMan2 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> In one year, I remember the Derby and the
> Preakness were 4 days apart.
>
> Just to be clear, I do not remember this from
> personal recollection, I remember it from looking
> at the same book that Joemama is referring to.
>
> Count Fleet is not the only triple crown winner to
> have run in other races between the Derby and the
> Belmont.  I think there was actually a triple
> crown winner who lost in an allowance race in the
> middle of winning the triple crown (I could be
> wrong on that).  Also, I think Citation won the
> Jersey Derby in the middle of his triple crown (do
> I recall correctly that Spend A Buck chose to run
> in this same race rather than the Preakness?).

Just noticed that you can get all triple crown winners\' PPs on the DRF site. I botched things a little.  Omaha lost the Withers in the middle of winning the Triple Crown (ran second to Rosemount).  Whirlaway ran in a $2,500 allowance (the Derby purse was $73k and the Belmont Purse $48k) in between the Preakness and the Belmont, but he won it.

[BH]

This from Wikipedia answers several points raised in this string:

 Man o\' War was not entered in the Kentucky Derby because his owner did not like racing in Kentucky and believed it was too early in the year for a young horse to go a mile and a quarter. The previous year, Sir Barton had won the first-ever U.S. Triple Crown of Thoroughbred Racing, though it was not called that at the time.[12] It gained that prestige and importance 10 years later, when Gallant Fox accomplished the feat under a great deal of media attention.

[Dick Powell]

When Count Fleet won the Belmont Stakes to clinch the Triple Crown, water was being rationed during the war and Belmont was bone dry. He came out of the race bad even though he won by 25 lengths and his winning time of 2:28 1/5 stood until Gallant Man in 1957. Gallant Man\'s trainer, John Nerud, is still alive.

[SoCalMan2]

Dick Powell Wrote:
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> When Count Fleet won the Belmont Stakes to clinch
> the Triple Crown, water was being rationed during
> the war and Belmont was bone dry. He came out of
> the race bad even though he won by 25 lengths and
> his winning time of 2:28 1/5 stood until Gallant
> Man in 1957. Gallant Man\'s trainer, John Nerud, is
> still alive.


I believe that the national radio broadcast of Count Fleet\'s Belmont (one of the highest rated radio spots -- sort of like the superbowl of its time) was interrupted to report the invasion of Normandy, but the report was in error and the invasion ended up coming a different day.  The Belmont would have been in the night in Europe, so hard to imagine, but who knows -- this is what I have heard -- could be wrong.

[Dick Powell]

Normandy was 1944. Count Fleet was 1943. The dates in June were close but the wrong year.

[TGJB]

You should see Cy Young\'s record. Ask Miff, he saw him as a rookie.

[joemama]

One of my fondest baseball memories was when I witnessed Grover Cleveland Alexander being inducted into the Hall of Fame.  What a day that was!

[joemama]

Well if anyone read the original post on this subject...