Lies and nonviolent felonies

[P-Dub]

richiebee Wrote:
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> Magic I as always love the presentation but do not
> understand the infatuation
> with the subject matter here, especially the Drape
> NYT article. If the NYT was
> going to have a full time racing writer who would
> cover racing regularly (and
> you know who my nominee for this position is), it
> would be OK that a couple of
> articles per year would be dedicated to the dark
> underbelly of the racing
> game, its roguish heritage, the Runyonesque
> characters.
>
> If racing is only going to be covered
> sporadically, let me read about horses
> and jockeys and the glorious history of racing.
>
> I think Drape also neglected to mention that the
> owner of the last Triple
> Crown winner, Affirmed, endured his own share of
> legal problems.
>
> So Zayat doesn\'t place great value on honesty. He
> has a reputation in the
> thoroughbred business for not placing a great
> value on paying people in a
> timely manner. He associates with some folks who
> might be unsavory. He likes
> to gamble. He has declared bankruptcy. All in all
> it might be said that he
> represents a composite .. albeit a wealthy one...
> of many of the people one
> might meet on the backstretch on any given day at
> any given American racetrack.
>
> So I keep reading these things about Zayat and
> waiting to read something that
> surprises or angers me. I have no problem that
> when Zayat does business with
> Egyptians he portrays himself as an Egyptian who
> happens to be Jewish, and
> when he does business with Jews he portrays
> himself as a Jew who happens to be
> Egyptian.
>
> I am not going to hold it against Zayat -- or his
> Triple Crown candidate --
> that he will never be mistaken for Mrs. Genter.

I was going to comment on this a few weeks ago.

I\'m amazed that so many of you are giving this guy a pass. I\'m sure some of you wager on sports, perhaps you\'ve also dealt with a local book. There is an agent between you and the book. At least, that\'s what I\'ve heard.

This guy wagers millions, loses because he is a lousy gambler, and stiffs the guy who arranged the credit?? And this is ok? Because.....the guy he stiffed may be a bit unsavory too? So that makes his lack of character and integrity ok?? Sticking this guy with the bill is ok?? You lost, pay your effing debt.

Sorry guys, but its hard for me to root for a guy like this. Maybe he is a \"composite of many of the people one might meet on the backstretch on any given day at any given American racetrack.\"  How many of those backstretch guys are trying for a TC and racing immortality??

Egyptian who happens to be Jewish, Jew who happens to be Egyptian. Big deal. Someone with his wealth that skips out on a gambling debt? He\'s a POS.

Which means this bleep\'s horse will win on Saturday.

[joemama]

Well said. The guy gets rich stiffing other people.

[richiebee]

P-Dub Wrote:
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> I was going to comment on this a few weeks ago.
>
> I\'m amazed that so many of you are giving this guy
> a pass. I\'m sure some of you wager on sports,
> perhaps you\'ve also dealt with a local book. There
> is an agent between you and the book. At least,
> that\'s what I\'ve heard.
>
> This guy wagers millions, loses because he is a
> lousy gambler, and stiffs the guy who arranged the
> credit?? And this is ok? Because.....the guy he
> stiffed may be a bit unsavory too? So that makes
> his lack of character and integrity ok?? Sticking
> this guy with the bill is ok?? You lost, pay your
> effing debt.

Again, review history. The owner of the last Triple Crown winner, Affirmed,
was Harbor View Farm. The master of Harbor View Farm was Louis Wolfson. Google
\"Louis Wolfson/SEC violations\" or \"Louis Wolfson/federal prison.\" Louis Wolfson
and other co defendants perpetrated fraud on the stockholders of publicly held
corporations, perpetrated fraud on the entire marketplace. This story was not
widely reported in the coverage of Affirmed\'s Triple Crown bid, mostly because
the journalism game has changed, just like the racing game has.

> Sorry guys, but its hard for me to root for a guy
> like this. Maybe he is a \"composite of many of the
> people one might meet on the backstretch on any
> given day at any given American racetrack.\"  How
> many of those backstretch guys are trying for a TC
> and racing immortality??

You need to separate the owner from the horse. Zayat, Mike Pegram, and Bob
and Beverly Lewis (Mr Lewis is no longer with us, I do not know about Mrs
Lewis) all made their fortunes the same way, through owning huge beer
distributorships. Should I be wringing my hands about how many folks died over
the weekend in drunk driving accidents? Should I have held it against former
owner Aaron U Jones that he may have cut down more trees than he planted in
his lumber business? Should all Calumet horses be banned from competing
because the current owner of Calumet, Brad Kelley, made his considerable
fortune (he is one of the 10 largest real property owners in the US) from
selling cigarettes?

I once saw Kelso\'s five HOY trophies all displayed in one gleaming case at
the National Racing Hall of Fame. Kelso was owned by a member of the DuPont
family, which before it branched off into chemicals, made its initial fortune
perfecting gunpowder and producing weapons...and on and on.

 

> Egyptian who happens to be Jewish, Jew who happens
> to be Egyptian. Big deal. Someone with his wealth
> that skips out on a gambling debt? He\'s a POS.

Okay, he is a POS. But at my age, I only have a certain amount of anger
left. Some of it is of course reserved for my wife; another portion is
reserved for my employer, which is sometimes so inept that they make NYRA look
like it operates like a fine Swiss watch. I will reserve the remaining anger
for teachers entrusted with children who violate that trust, for public
servants who only serve themselves, for the handful of NFL brutes who are
arrested each week for domestic violence and animal abuse...


> Which means this bleep\'s horse will win on
> Saturday.

Who can wait till Saturday? I already have the PPs for Friday. TGs
available today guys?

[moosepalm]

magicnight Wrote:
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> For someone who says he didn\'t do it, Ahmed Zayat
> sure seems to lie a lot.
>
> http://around2turns.com/2015/05/31/the-smell-of-vi
> ctory/


Just getting around to this, Bob.  Nicely done, as always.  I\'ve always believed in gambler\'s karma.  If you owe somebody, even a faceless corporate entity, you pay it off right away.  I don\'t have particularly high expectations of character at the top of the business, nor will I come up with a POS rank ordering of all of them.  If AP wins, I will hold my nose, and say, \"good for the sport.\"  If he loses, maybe the wheel of karma had a say in it.  However, in truth, there is no timing for karmic payback.  But, there will always be a price that is paid, in some form of currency.  Nothing evaporates into thin air.

[richiebee]

Moose how does that karmic wheel spin work if all the people Zayat stiffed get
paid if AP wins?

Karma can be komplicated, no?

One of my favorite bumper stickers, right up there with \"Jesus loves you, but
everyone else thinks you\'re an asshole\" says \"My karma ran over your dogma.\"

[moosepalm]

richiebee Wrote:
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> Moose how does that karmic wheel spin work if all
> the people Zayat stiffed get
> paid if AP wins?
>
> Karma can be komplicated, no?
>
> One of my favorite bumper stickers, right up there
> with \"Jesus loves you, but
> everyone else thinks you\'re an asshole\" says \"My
> karma ran over your dogma.\"

Richie, I think I mentioned that it comes in all forms of currency, understood in the broadest sense, and the timing is totally unpredictable.  It\'s not mysticism, it\'s science.  For every action there\'s a reaction.  So, yes, you\'re correct, it can be complicated.

[ringato3]

RichieBee

Perhaps u are too nice of a guy to understand what a POS Zayat is?   He has the money NOW to pay off what he owes many times over, yet chooses not to, because of the kind of guy he is.  Winning the triple crown and getting more money isn\'t going to make him MOrE likely to pay off what he owes.

For what it is worth, I have accounts at two large offshore places and know the management at both VERY well, and he owes one of them a large sum and the other guy says it is common knowledge on that circuit, in fact his name is on published blacklists that the books share that detail the players that have defrauded.  (Most don\'t credit like Zayat, but have defrauded through opening up queries on credit card charges that they authorized but then claim they didn\'t know.  Zayat is a whole different level...

Reallocate some anger currently allocated to your wife and direct it at this guy.   The fact that previous triple crown players have had similar shady backgrounds doesn\'t make it right that this guy is as P-Dub said, a POS.

Rob

[FrankD.]

Rob,

We\'ve become too civilized; here in lies the problem. A mere 25 years ago or so all gambling at that level was controlled by one group. They had few issues with getting paid and due to their collection methods not too many \"sharp guys\" took shots saying I\'ll just stiff em if I lose!

Topcat and Rick B. I\'m sure will vouge for the old Chicago outfits creed.
First F\' up baseball bat 2nd one gets the gun.

The off shore world has sorted itself out to an extent but in it\'s infancy there were more than a few wanna be investors who jumped into the gambling business never thinking that end can lose just as easily? Many a player got stiffed big time as the lights got put out on the wanna be bookmakers Especially on horses.

Can you imagine Bugsy Siegel filing suit against a player for stiffing Meyer Lansky and losing his commission.

To simpler times for sure,

Frank D.

[miff]

Frank,

Still lots of stiffs around.Several bm\'s I know for years lament at trying to collect from stiffs. From wives calling up threatening to call the law to \"I aint got it\", things have dramatically changed for the local bm\'s.

Old days, you paid or else, not the same today.


How\'s the weather looking for Sat, hearing rain all week down here?

Mike

[moosepalm]

FrankD. Wrote:
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> Can you imagine Bugsy Siegel filing suit against a
> player for stiffing Meyer Lansky and losing his
> commission.
>

Moe Greene:  You think I\'m skimming off the top, Mike?

Michael:  You\'re unlucky.

[FrankD.]

Mike,

I never put much faith in any forecast more than 48 hours out and laughed at Joe B. for calling for rain 8 days out, we\'ll see he may be correct there is a lot of that stuff this week?

Looks like Laura is Insisting we go!!!! OMG after 26 years of marriage I thought I was all done with those edicts! So I\'m hoping for dry skies.

[miff]

Frank,

Here on dreary Staten Island it looks bad for the local forecast all week, only 30+ min or so from Belmont.

Hope your trip good and weather ok. If Belmont goes indoors because of weather, it\'s a disaster.


Mike

[TGJB]

Quite a string. My one contribution will be that public contrary claims notwithstanding, I know for a fact the misspelling of the horse\'s name came from the owners, not the Jockey Club.

[razzle]

Loved the narrative.  There\'s an old story about throwing a frog in boiling water, he will jump out without getting burned.  Put same frog in tepid water and slowly bring to boil and he\'ll cook before knowing to jump.  Life\'s \"heat\" is insidious,especially in this game. Zayat is at full boil.  Refreshing to read that you are \"uncooked\".  Keep \'em coming.

[magicnight]

TGJB Wrote:
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> Quite a string. My one contribution will be that
> public contrary claims notwithstanding, I know for
> a fact the misspelling of the horse\'s name came
> from the owners, not the Jockey Club.

Indeed! Name filed online. No data entry by the JC. I cut that out because it seems those lies came from the kid, not AZ. What\'s that they say about the apple and the tree?