Pharoah to Stay Out West

[Dana666]

Victor Espinoza reported on social media (take that for what it\'s worth) that AP will race at Del Mar this summer, which I\'m assuming means that the Pacific Classic is his ultimate goal. Would be cool if Chrome were in that race too though that is perhaps very unlikely, but I can\'t ever remember two derby winners squaring off; can any of you all remember that happening (I\'m sure it has)? Bad news for east coast fans though--we\'ll probably never see the Pharoah again! What surprised me is just how easy his Belmont win was, that and how thoroughly he dominated his 3 year old rivals; in three races only Frosted ever got close to him with ground loss factored into the derby. We\'ll likely never see another like this one the rest of our lives.

[Agastache]

Unbridled and Strike The Gold squared off in the 91 BC Classic.

Ferdinand and Alysheba in 87 Classic.

Bid and Affirmed at some point.

Affirmed and Slew at some point. Jockey Club Gold Cup?

[SoCalMan2]

Agastache Wrote:
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> Unbridled and Strike The Gold squared off in the
> 91 BC Classic.
>
> Ferdinand and Alysheba in 87 Classic.
>
> Bid and Affirmed at some point.
>
> Affirmed and Slew at some point. Jockey Club Gold
> Cup?

Secretariat and Riva Ridge

[TGJB]

Dana-- we\'ve seen others like this in our lives.

Winning the TC is not primarily about ability, not even ability relative to the other 3yos of that crop. Both Smarty and Rachel were at least as good, and better relative to their crops. Winning the TC is about the ability to run three big races in five weeks.

And almost nobody can train horses to do that, except one guy. And he isn\'t getting nearly enough credit here. Baffert has been in this spot four times, and got the horse to run big three times, even when they lost. The other one (War Emblem) he picked up just three weeks before the Derby.

I mean, since the last TC winner, how many other horses have run well in all three, forgetting about winning the TC? Victory Gallop did, and probably some others, but not many.

Lots have run well in two. Baffert is clearly the best at getting three.

[miff]

\"Baffert is clearly the best at getting three\"


Cali people, even those who despise him, say Baffy micromanages every minute detail of his horses training/feed et al.During TC series Zayat blurted out about Baffy being \"genius\" with things he does  with horses which Zayat did not see any of his other trainers do.Tough to swallow that as there is only so much you can do with a horse,legally.

Would not bet that AP has run his fastest race yet.

[richiebee]

Dana666 Wrote:
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> AP will race at Del
> Mar this summer, which I\'m assuming means that the
> Pacific Classic is his ultimate goal. Would be
> cool if Chrome were in that race too though that
> is perhaps very unlikely,

  First, Horse of the half Year Chrome will have to overcome some \"Dumbass\" mismanagement

  but I can\'t ever remember two derby winners squaring off; can any
> of you all remember that happening (I\'m sure it has)?

TRIPLE CROWN winners Affirmed and Seattle Slew faced each other at least twice.

 
  Bad news for east coast fans though--we\'ll
> probably never see the Pharoah again!\"

Im about as \"far East\" as one can be, and all of AP\'s races have been shown at Living Room Downs. Hopefully he will run again.

[miff]

\"Hopefully he will run again\"


...if he sneezes, he\'ll be retired.

[TGJB]

Given that different people own his breeding and racing rights, seems to me there\'s a conflict of interest...

[ringato3]

Great points by TGJB and Mike about Baffert.  

Sometimes we compliment one person by denigrating another, which is wrong, but I am going to anyway.  

Baffert likes to give his horses rest between races, like most other trainers, but he has accepted the triple crown is different and adapted his style accordingly and been extremely successful with it.

Pletcher refuses to adapt his training style, skips the preakness every single year that he can, and has a horrendous record in 2 of the 3 legs of the triple crown.  

It doesn\'t mean Pletcher isn\'t a good trainer, how could I argue he isn\'t, but he isnt near the trainer Baffert is, IMO.

The analogy I would draw is george Thompson sr, the Georgetown coach, and Coach k at duke.   Thompson could only recruit people that fit his system.   Some people called it racist, I won\'t.  But he only recruited an athletic profile, no pure shooters.   He was a good coach.   Very good.

Coach K adapted his game, even to the point of accepting \"ome and dones\", because the game dictated that he change.

Pletcher will likely continue to be a triple crown disaster, while Baffert flourishes.  

I also thought Baffert did a great job of checking his ego, never taking credit, and being extremely magnanimous.  

Kudos to him and the horse.

Maybe next time I will be smart enough to bet a horse like this, but I doubt it..

Rob

[miff]

JB,

Would not be surprised if there isn\'t a clause stating that if AP gets beat, he must be retired.I know that clause did exist with other syndicated horses that were still racing

Mike

[NormandyInvasion]

miff Wrote:
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> \"Hopefully he will run again\"
>
>
> ...if he sneezes, he\'ll be retired.


Not with Zayat controlling his racing this year and having 0% interest in his stud career (outside of a few breeding rights the likely contracted).  Zayat has nothing to lose by running him as much as he can, but all to gain in any remaining kickers, purses, and attention.

As for never seeing another like him, I\'d beg to differ and think we\'ve seen recent 3yos as good if not better and a lot of better older horses.  He still has some more races to make his mark, but he looks beatable right now, and despite winning the TC, I don\'t feel yet that I\'m witnessing a great.

[HP]

TGJB you are right about Baffert and he deserves a world of credit, but I would say the biggest difference this year is the five and a half month break AP had vs. the others. There have been lots of experiments with spacing, running fewer preps, etc., but that long break looks like the really distinguishing factor here.  Sorry if others have gotten into this but I have not read through all 500 posts.  

HP

[richiebee]

ringato3 Wrote:
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> Pletcher refuses to adapt his training style,
> skips the preakness every single year that he can,
> and has a horrendous record in 2 of the 3 legs of
> the triple crown.

My opinion,the biggest adjustment TAP would need to make is not putting so
much emphasis on dominating Saratoga 2YO racing.  
 
> It doesn\'t mean Pletcher isn\'t a good trainer, how
> could I argue he isn\'t, but he isnt near the
> trainer Baffert is, IMO.

In my opinion, if I owned a good turf horse, neither Pletcher nor Baffert
would probably be my first choice to train it, but based on their records, I
would choose TAP over Baffert. Also it will be interesting to see Baffert work
with the speedy headcase Bayern.

 
> Pletcher will likely continue to be a triple crown
> disaster, while Baffert flourishes.

Obviously, the short list of Triple Crown trainers in the last 30 years is
Lukas and the man he would not give a job to, Bob Baffert. It is only part of
the story though. You would like to be able to see, over the long term or for
a particular year, the dollar value of all the racing stock entrusted to a
given trainer and the return the trainer is able to produce.


I wish you hadn\'t mentioned college hoops. At the beginning of the 2015- 2016
season, get a hold of the starting fives of the 200 or so Div 1 teams, and
determine what percentage of these 1000 or so players graduated American high
schools in four years and went directly to college.

Athletic scholarships should not be allocated to foreign students; there are
plenty of student athletes in the US who are worthy.

Save the scholarships for foreign students who can work on pressing worldwide
problems, such as marriage.

[Dana666]

You\'re not thinking Royal Ascot is a good move for Chrome??? Yeah, I def. feel the same.

[P-Dub]

NormandyInvasion Wrote:
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> As for never seeing another like him, I\'d beg to
> differ and think we\'ve seen recent 3yos as good if
> not better and a lot of better older horses.  He
> still has some more races to make his mark, but he
> looks beatable right now, and despite winning the
> TC, I don\'t feel yet that I\'m witnessing a great.

You probably feel the same way about Mike Trout and Bryce Harper.

I don\'t need 10 more years to tell me these guys are great players, and will continue to be great.

He has been tremendous in every race of his career.

Don\'t worry JB, I won\'t engage in a back and forth like I did with....