Cleaning up the Racing Industry: Today's - "Who's HOT and who's NOT"

[derby1592]

HOT: Trainer John Ward - a member of the drug council and the national consortium, urged the KHRA to adopt the model policy to create uniformity for trainers and the betting public. \"Our industry needs to become unified and increase integrity,\" Ward said. (The model policy was adopted by KHRA and may even be in place in KY before the Derby.)
 
NOT: Kentucky HBPA president Susan Bunning - said she was disappointed the KHRA took action without first pursuing research on use of race-day therapeutic medications. (Just be thankful that she does not work for the FDA since her stance is that any drug should be considered OK to use until scientifically proved otherwise and that it is perfectly OK for Kentucky to have different rules than the other States.)

[Michael D.]

Hot: shug. on fire. has the best bred horses in the history of the game, and the guy can\'t win a damn allowance race. AND HE IS A GOOD TRAINER!!

Not: michael dickinson, obviously.

[miff]

Michael D,

One thing I\'m well aware of is that Shug is almost stubborn about giving riders instructions to break and \"Settle\"his horses.With the majority of races at most tracks won by tactical horses,he may be living a bit in the past when he had a number of great filly\'s and mares who were closers.

Having said that, I once asked why none of his horses were \"sent\". He replied that they didn\'t have any early foot.

None of them??? Kinda hard to believe.

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

Susan Bunning is almost comical isnt\' she? Very astute observation on the difference in drug policies.

FDA: \"Prove its safe\"

Susan Bunning: \"Prove its performance enhancing because otherwise I favor usage when other jurisdictions do not\"

Susan, you silly twit. The burden of proof to administer drugs is on the trainers even in the permissive state of Kentucky. Don\'t worry all that pot and coke hasn\'t altered your thinking one bit.

[Michael D.]

miff,
yea, training for a breeding outfit like that is tough. keeping all of them sound, like shug seems to do, involves some sacrifices. i like the way he plays the game, i just can\'t bet on his horses anymore.



Post Edited (02-22-05 18:03)

[richiebee]

IMO Shug, as a horseman, has forgotten things that some of the current crop of hot trainers(Lake, Dutrow, Mullins, Romans, etc)will never learn.

His mission for the Phipps\' has not been to win races in large numbers, but to win the types of races that will maintain/enhance the value of the Phipps\' bloodlines.

Although I never get excited about his Triple Crown prospects, it is important not to forget that Shug has won the BC Juvenile, BC Sprint, BC Mile(twice), BC Juvenile Fillies(twice), and BC Distaff (twice).

Speaking of the BC, I was at Monmouth last week for simulcasting-- they have lots of work to do. Lots of peeling paint, etc. And please, let 2006 be the last year the BC is held at a track with a turf course less than 1 mile in circumference.

[miff]

Richiebee,

If you said Alan Jerkens,I would agree. Let\'s also not forget that Shug works exclusively with the offspring of the best broodmare\'s in the game.

His recent accomplishments, considering the above, is ordinary IMO.Granted his past records were great and he probably has greater horsemanship than todays Supertrainers.

I can tell you that many NY trainers call on the Chief when they just can\'t get one right.

[richiebee]

Miff:
 
  I have watched and admired H. Allen since the early 1970s, when Robyn Smith (Mrs.Fred Astaire)was riding for him.

  He will never be given all the credit he is due by the racegoing public because of his indifference towards \"BIG EVENTS\"--The Triple Crown and the Breeders Cup.

[Mall]

Maybe I\'m as guilty of overanalyzing this question as I was the Gen Geo, but there\'s an old saying that no matter how thin you make the pancakes, they still have two sides, something which \"journalist\" Hegarty does not acknowledge in today\'s article.

One of the Ky HBPA\'s arguments is that there needs to be a distinction drawn between the kinds of horses someone like Ward trains, & the kinds of horses someone like Ward used to train, namely the ones who compete in the low level claiming & conditioned claiming races at Turfway & Ellis. Of those I know, the trainers & vets who are making the argument strike me as every bit as interested in the well being of, & a lot more knowledgeable about, the horses competing at that level than John Ward is. Although there was probably some exaggeration in his argument, let\'s hope that vet Piehowicz was completely wrong when he predicted that adoption of the new rules will result in the wholesale slaughter of arthritic horses which won\'t be able to compete without the medications.

It\'s hard to defend Susan Bunning\'s comment, at least standing alone, but you might want to keep in mind that her job is to represent all trainers, not just high end trainers like John Ward. Over the last couple of yrs, her position on the question has been based on some facts that I\'ve not seen contradicted by any of the racing \"journalists\" who are currently painting her as the idiot poster girl for an \"anything goes\" medication policy:

1. Ky has the highest no. of starters per race.
2. Ky has the lowest no. of breakdowns of horses racing.
3. Ky has the highest demand for its simulcasts.
4. Ky\'s equine industry allocates more revenue to drug research than any other state.

A lot of what is done in Ky is indefensible, but racing is the signature & arguably most important business in what is a very, very small state, one with a population about 1/25th of the LA metro area. Even when I am vehemently opposed to what they do, it is rare when both sides of the pancake have not been at looked at & considered carefully, something which does not seem to be part of the \"debate\" taking place on this Bd & in the racing press.

I don\'t what the story is with Shug these days, but not too long after his greatest successes, it was fairly common knowledge that he had a personal problem that was interfering with his ability to perform at his peak. Perhaps that problem is in the past now, but I don\'t think it was a coincidence that his success declined when his personal problem started.

[miff]

Shug went through a divorce and health issues over the past 5-10 years. He has a highly capable assistant in Buzz Tenney(sp?)

One August night I had a drink with Shug in Saratoga and asked him why none of the great Phipps mares were throwing any early speed. He had no answer (how could he). Without doubt, I know that he trains his horses to settle back and then make a run. That style, in recent years, has been a recipe for disaster at most circuits.


If you carefully look at just about every runner from Shug\'s barn,you will generally note the running style I refer to.I know the guys a great horseman but I wonder if he has  adjusted to the style that mostly dominates racing these days, tactical/positional speed.

[jbelfior]

Shugs nearly got one of the great female runners of all time beat when he decided to use the then 1 1/4 Beldame at Belmont as a prep for the BC Distaff. The :25 and :50 splits could not have helped much in getting her ready for a cutback against the world\'s best distaffers 3 weeks later.

PERSONAL ENSIGN won it despite her trainer. For other examples,see Wood Memorial and JCGC preps for EASY GOER. You would think that Shugs would have learned something after watching EG get into the Preakness pace much earlier which set him up perfectly for his Belmont romp.  

I can go on and on, even adding SEEKING THE GOLD\'s tactics in the Travers and BC Classic, but I think we all get the point when it comes to \'ol Shugs.


Good Luck,
Joe B.

[BitPlayer]

Mall -

Good thoughtful post.  I had thoughts along the same lines when I read a recent NY Times piece saying that a major concern for Roger Clemens in deciding whether to pitch another season was the possibility that he wouldn\'t have access to Vioxx to deal with the inflammation that results when he pitches.

Reduced medication may be the way to go to level the playing field, but it will also ultimately raise the net cost of owning horses.  It\'s hard to imagine that at least part of the the increased cost won\'t be passed along to bettors in some fashion.

On the flip side: (a) the prevalence of medication will lead to the breeding of more medication-reliant horses, making the problem harder to deal with; and (b) I think we\'re talking about a lot of medications other than anti-inflammatory agents.

I agree with the position of Classhandicapper (I think it was him) that ultimately the solution has to involve consolidation of race tracks and a smaller population of racing horses.  Of course, if I were training low-level claimers at a small track, I wouldn\'t think much of that solution.

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

Bit, I agree with you. A horse is born to run. If he can\'t run without being loaded with medications he\'s not a real horse.

Medications along with speed breeding are why horses like Mr. Prospector can\'t get starters to average more than about 7 starts. Its why the Jockey Club Gold Cup and Breeders Cup Classic are 10 marks. Thats a fair distance for a three year old in May, but its not how horses have traditionally been measured for class, both here and abroad.

I\'m all for removing ALL medication from the game. If a horse is generally arthritic, he shouldn\'t be running anymore. Does the running on medication relieve his arthritic condition? I don\'t think so. I think it exaccerbates it. Maybe what I believe will result in more claiming fields, but it will also result in well bred horses that pass on good traits.

To my mind the lax medication rules along with the brittle speed types that take advantage of them place the game in questionable circumstances. And thats not even considering the harm to the bettor and fan.

CtC



Post Edited (02-23-05 11:22)

I agree that tactical speed types seem to have an advantage over the late run types that Shug usually trains (except maybe at Belmont at time). However, I think if you look at some of top trainers of the last decade that train for speed and get their horses to produce their best form early in their careers, they also have way more premature breakdowns and horses with physical problems. Maybe there\'s a balance in there.