Woodward

[Saddlecloth]

beyerguy Wrote:
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> CtC,
>
> Apparently you somehow missed in my short post
> that I don\'t care about rabbits.  These horses
> were there to intimidate and harass Commentator.
> Watch the head on, then get back to me.  This had
> nothing to do with outrunning him for the lead.

I did not have a chance to review it till this morning, when someone told me to check it out it out, its pretty bad what they did, as complete uncoupled entries.  I swear, how this does not fit a conspiracy to fix a pari mutual race is beyond me.  

Richee

\"Shame on Commentator and Gary Stevens; Commentator had broke on top in his previous 4 races, yet couldn\'t clear these two tomato cans in the first 1/8th mile yesterday. \"

I think he could have cleared them, but in Stevens\'s mind he was asking how much horse he would have left if he did so. I think he took a shot at rating him and he got rank. THen he tried to go and the rabbits went Kamikazee.  Sooner or later they were going to have to find out if he could rate a little and still run as well. Better yesterday than to make that decision in the BC under fire.  

IMO, no matter how you slice it, Commentator was exposed as a one dimensional speed horse (at least at this point in his career) that only beat St Liam up at Saratoga because he got loose by 5 lengths on a track that was kind to front runners. IMO, he was not as good as he looked up at Saratoga and I didn\'t see anything yesterday to change my mind even if that wasn\'t his \"A\" game. IMO, it\'s always hard to measure performances like this because some speed horses like Commentator wilt terribly when they don\'t get it their own way and others run fine but not quite as well. There is no formula. The frame of reference (the Whitney) is just as suspect because of the track. He\'s a damn good sprinter though. Maybe they should reconsider what they want to do with him.  

 

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

Beyerguy,

I saw the race. Richiebee stated the key point. \"Why didn\'t Stevens just outgun those cheap horses?\" Stevens tried to rate a bit and said his horse got rank and he had to let him go. The initial rating played right into their hands and Commentator came unglued. Showboot was a NW2X horse. Crafty a NW1X horse, but they didn\'t want to send Commentator because they didnt want to burn the gas that early.

That was also a very fair track. There was no way in hell Commentator was gonna steal a race on it.

He deserved exactly what he got....No Respect.

[beyerguy]

If that is the kind of racing you want to see at the top levels of the sport, you truly are a clown.  Looked like WWE to me.

CTC,

\"He switched to his left lead and he was very rank with me,\" Stevens said. \"My tack went forward, I had to give him his head, and that was it.\"

Beyer,

\"If that is the kind of racing you want to see at the top levels of the sport, you truly are a clown. Looked like WWE to me.\"

Where\'s Triple H?  

I have mixed feelings about rabbits. I don\'t have too much of a problem with a trainer making sure a one dimensional speed horse doesn\'t have an unfair advantage in a paceless race. I have more of a problem with sending horses from another owner on a suicide mission. As far as I am concerned, that means any two owners in the world can sit down before the race and give themselves a huge betting and purse advantage by working out deals for who\'s going for the lead and who is not etc...

[Saddlecloth]

classhandicapper Wrote:
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> Beyer,
>
> \"If that is the kind of racing you want to see at
> the top levels of the sport, you truly are a
> clown. Looked like WWE to me.\"
>
> Where\'s Triple H?  
>
> I have mixed feelings about rabbits. I don\'t have
> too much of a problem with a trainer making sure a
> one dimensional speed horse doesn\'t have an unfair
> advantage in a paceless race. I have more of a
> problem with sending horses from another owner on
> a suicide mission. As far as I am concerned, that
> means any two owners in the world can sit down
> before the race and give themselves a huge betting
> and purse advantage by working out deals for who\'s
> going for the lead and who is not etc...
>
>

like I said, conspiracy to fix a pari mutual race, its dangerously close.

[kev]

All this crying, let me ask you this beyer.......Didn\'t Nick Z. knew what was about to happen?? and he still ran him, maybe he was in it for the 2nd place money, hell he got 2nd and 3rd place. Second, so this horse can\'t run at all with horses to either side of him, they might want to go ahead and put him in stud now, oh wait he can\'t bred I guess he\'s F\'ed. I don\'t buy it, maybe if it was his time to run his A game he might have held on alot better, he was coming two big races. You think that Zito could have told Gary something to make it better on the horse.

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

beyerguy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If that is the kind of racing you want to see at
> the top levels of the sport, you truly are a
> clown.  Looked like WWE to me.

Once again, Classhandicapper hit on the salient part of the issue. I don\'t have any problem whatsoever with multiple trainer entries to run an unadaptable prospective piece of dog food into the ground. I can see that. I can handicap it and if that Woodward was a real field at all I would have bet a perfecta where Companyhator was out of exacta.

That was WWE. It was a rigged match. Zito and Dutrow ran all the horses. Screw Zito and his medicine. If he wants to play medicine blast off hes free game. Zito ran five horsese in the Derby and kept others out. The rules are the rules. If they want to change them so that a trainer can only have one horse in a race, I\'m fine with it. Ask Zito if he can accept one Derby starter.

I\'d much prefer WWE rabbits than secret deals and backroom handshakes that result in pace scenarios that aren\'t apparent on their face.

I\'m glad Companyhator lost and I\'m glad Zito is looking like a fool. Maybe he\'ll develope a conscience. He should have scratched the horse.

[spa]

It\'s good to have the old Chuckles back.....

[twoshoes]

He should have scratched the horse.


Why? This is all a bit of a joke. I agree with the posts here that said this was not so much to do with rabbits as it was intentionally harrassing one horse to benefit an uncoupled enrymate, but that being said Zito and Stevens let that happen by attempting to rate him. He should have blown to the front as always and those two pigs would have been gasping after trying to chase some quality speed after a 1/2. Nobody ever suggested that Pop John could warm up Vanlandingham going 9 furlongs even if he could run a 1/2 in 44 flat. We saw what Commentator did to better horses than this 2 back at Belmont, albeit at 7/8. If nothing else employing those tactics would have made St. Liam \'get down on his belly\' trying to stay close and it could have set things up better for Sir Shack had Commentator quit anyway. They put St. Liam in the catbird seat trying to avoid a duel at any point. Point two - this was sad for NYRA and The Woodward but blaming NYRA is a joke. If you don\'t think they worked overtime trying to hustle a larger field for this then you are kidding yourself. Goldfarb picked up a decent chunk rigging the race for his trainer and he deserves every penny he got because at least he entered. Point three - it would serve Dutrow right if Zito entered all or as many of his contingent he can get in to the Classic and take turns riding herd on St. Liam to make sure he doesn\'t win. But that won\'t happen because like him or not Zito has more respect for the game than that. I didn\'t like Dutrow before but I had some grudging respect for what he has been able to accomplish - no more. Yesterday\'s tactics - not the rabbit part - were a black eye for the thoroughbred racing because it was anything but sporting.

Mark

[Chuckles_the_Clown2]

twoshoes Wrote:
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> He should have scratched the horse.
>
>
> Why? This is all a bit of a joke. I agree with the
> posts here that said this was not so much to do
> with rabbits as it was intentionally harrassing
> one horse to benefit an uncoupled enrymate, but
> that being said Zito and Stevens let that happen
> by attempting to rate him. He should have blown to
> the front as always and those two pigs would have
> been gasping after trying to chase some quality
> speed after a 1/2.

Seems like Zito doesnt trust this horse. You can see it in the way he\'s been handled. He\'s clearly not a Dr. Fager.

> Nobody ever suggested that Pop
> John

Pop John?

> could warm up Vanlandingham going 9 furlongs
> even if he could run a 1/2 in 44 flat. We saw what
> Commentator did to better horses than this 2 back
> at Belmont, albeit at 7/8. If nothing else
> employing those tactics would have made St. Liam
> \'get down on his belly\' trying to stay close and
> it could have set things up better for Sir Shack
> had Commentator quit anyway.

Sir Shack ran a good race, but St. Liam was in a mere Gallop

> Goldfarb picked up a decent chunk
> rigging the race for his trainer and he deserves
> every penny he got because at least he entered.

Agreed


> Point three - it would serve Dutrow right if Zito
> entered all or as many of his contingent he can
> get in to the Classic and take turns riding herd
> on St. Liam to make sure he doesn\'t win. But that
> won\'t happen because like him or not Zito has more
> respect for the game than that.

Not sure St. Liam is susceptible to different pace challenges. He\'s gonna run his race from what I can see. But the Zito respect for the game comment is interesting. Does that include respect to not tamper illegally with his horses? By the way, didn\'t Zito run rabbits for Strike the Gold?...Oh, he wasn\'t ganging up with different ownership interests at the time though. Loach was intended to lose, but he was intended to lose by the same owner. Just keep in mind as Richiebee pointed out, Goldfarb earning some checks in the Woodward. Did Loach? A rabbit by any other name is still a rabbit and that doesnt\' disrespect the game.

> Dutrow before but I had some grudging respect for
> what he has been able to accomplish - no more.
> Yesterday\'s tactics - not the rabbit part - were a
> black eye for the thoroughbred racing because it
> was anything but sporting.

Sporting? St. Liam is one of the most accomplished horses by Saint Ballado, who is gone now. He\'s clearly a far more professional race horse than Companyhator and without the Triple Crown victories on his resume they are clicking off Grade I\'s for when he retires to stud. He is extremely well bred and only has a small dose (and the best kind) of Mr. Prospector in him. He\'s already lost a couple races he shouldn\'t have lost, one to Companyhator. They are building his residual value. In logic\'s name, why should they play \"sportsmanship\" with a headstrong faux horse thats high on amphetamines? Companyhator is on crack whats sporting about that?

Zito clearly knows there is no sportsmanship at this level. It\'s about winning. You bring a horse to the ball that can dance and if he can\'t dance you don\'t deserve to win.

[kingcong39]

Chuckles, to say you are missing saddle\'s and twoshoes point is beyond obvious. What Dutrow did was the exact same sort of thing you were the 1st to post, scream, and rant about when the article was written about Ramsey and Frankel talking about the pace scenario between Roses In May and Ghostzapper in last year\'s Classic, and yet this time you don\'t agree? This is just as bad. It is not the fact that they were rabbits, it was the fact that Rodriguez on Crafty Player clearly was strangling his horse back to stay to the outside of Commentator, and when Commentator ran up inside of him, Rodriguez shook him up and sent him hard, not to be sure Commentator was gassed out, but to harass him. Who knows if he was chirping and doing anything else to harass Commentator. This is what everybody has a problem with, and it is high time Dutrow is told that he does not own racing like he thinks at the moment.
I also like your accusing Zito of juicing while defending a known juicer. Now that is a good one. lol

[NoCarolinaTony]

I Disagree, It just goes to show you this horse does need that kind of help in order to win, his trainer just showed you that. This one will usually finish second when he can.

This time they all collapsed exept him. Lets face it there was one other Grade ! type besides ST. L, in the race the rest were non graded or Grade 3 type. The two horses did their job to an unrateable horse (Bellamy Road), It was basically a walkoever from the top of the stretch home.

The worst ever Woodwardfield ever.

NC Tony

[kev]

Well if he needs that type of race to win, looks like Commentator only can win loose on the lead, just look at every race he\'s ran in and won. Oh wait they was almost all fast paces too. I guess Zito would never enter him and B.Road in the same race for the BC. Right or wrong what Richard did, it wasn\'t aganist the rules. Like I said I think Zito knew what was going to happen and was going for 2nd and 3rd place money. If it was my horse I would have tryed something, like tell G.Stevens to hold him back somewhat try and settle him down, hell why not try in a race like this.