Sorry MTB fans, his win was bad for racing

[P-Dub]

TGJB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
 
> And PDub, enough with the personal slams. I\'m not
> kidding.


Personal slams?? I said he acted smug and arrogant. If I thought that was a personal attack and not allowed,  I wouldn\'t have said it.

Next time I\'ll say it a non-offensive way. But the facts remain the same.

[TGJB]

Next time split the difference, either call someone smug or arrogant but not both. And don\'t do it too often, it heats things up unecessarily around here.

[TGJB]

Jimbo-- I just looked at winners, and just the last couple of years. But yes, it\'s a big jump-- so what\'s the issue here? Horses do jump, and this one did. That\'s not the same as saying it happens often to this degree, or the horse should have been keyed.

Turns out one guy that has been using our data forever (and Ragozin before that) did use the horse heavily,and din\'t hit it either.

I\'m about to do the day, more comments afterward.

[magicnight]

Can\'t find the chart but Unbridled (Naftzger, coincidence?) may fit that bill.

Also, if I\'m posting as \"magicnight\" I\'m at work and - theoretically - should be sober. If I\'m posting as \"BB\", well, I could be a few sheets to the wind (look for a late night post time and an excess of flowery language).

[P-Dub]

jimbo66 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> P-Dub,
>
 
> Gimme a break.  You have been posting way too
> often here, and made way too many good points, to
> actually believe that this is a good point.

Thanks for the compliment.  I was beginning to feel that I was the board dumbass. Not that someone couldn\'t have found a reason (kinda like MTB).

 
> BTW, not to be a wiseass, but wouldn\'t you know
> that I finally got a 1w/1w tri from your boy Mike
> Smith aboard Lemon Chiffon on Derby day, in what I
> personally thought was the best bet of the day,
> and he did it on what may have been a dead rail on
> the turf course...  There is some sick irony in
> that one.....

Make that 2 people. I was all ready to tell you all about that rail skimmimg ride, I was all set to see this horse close and win, then nothing. I\'m blaming you.

Look,  all I was trying to say is that there were other reasons that someone COULD have had MTB.  Thats it.  I know its a Thorograph board.  I was responding to a post from Slewzapper, who introduced non-TG analysis into the conversation. I just added 50 cents to it.

Mike,
He was a slow rat going in. (My favotite description I\'ve ever heard,  a little nicer than pig). I am not disputing that. I\'m just saying that there are alternative ways to handicap a race. These people had it. Those of us that use Thorograph didn\'t.

I go to the races with people that use the DRF.  Thats all they use. I was in Reno this weekend with some friends. We\'re handicapping the races Friday night. We\'re talking about the 6th race and I tell them I really like Accredit. One mentions Sok Sok. I said I didn\'t like him. They jumped all over me. Another mentioned Kodiak Kowboy.  Said I hated him more. You should have heard the next 5 minutes.  They thought I was nuts.

Next day, I bet Accredit. I\'m the only one yelling at the end. They told me nice hit. They didn\'t say it was a fluke, I was lucky, etc.. They moved on to the next race.

I\'m not disputing any of the facts being mentioned around here. I\'m just not one who dismisses other people who hit a race that happen to use an alternative method. Thats it.

[P-Dub]

Point taken JB.  I honestly didn\'t realize the comment was that offensive. Please accept my apology, and Silver......I apologize if that comment was construed as offensive. But you did kinda act like 1 of the descriptions I mentioned. I just thought you jumped the guy pretty good.  Thats all, I have no personal dislike for you.  

Yes, it does heat things up. I could have left out the comments.

I\'ll watch it.  Thanks for letting me know.

[docicu3]

So did MTB get somewhere in the 0-2 range for his number in the Derby?.....sorry if it\'s hidden here in the thread but can\'t find it

[P.Eckhart]

The race behind was an 04 derby rerun. But the winner ran in a different race, literally. He ran past all the compromised horses in that race but he was never in that race himself, else he would\'ve been compromised also. Seminal ride.

[MonmouthGuy]

He got horse racing its first SI cover since Smarty Jones and its 4th in the last 30 years, so it can\'t be all bad from a PR perspective, considering at this time last year, Eight Belles and PETA were in the headlines.


http://www.ntra.com/content.aspx?type=news&id=39274

[Ill-bred]

Despite what the chart says, Whirlaway actually came home in 24 flat. If you watch the replay, you\'ll see he\'s on the lead at the quarter poll. The voice-over even says 24-flat (cut to the 1:54 mark). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzMoS22nePA

MTB\'s final quarter was the fourth fastest in Derby history and second fastest among the 135 winners (Secretariat).

[JR]

Too easy and, more importantly, wrong.

MM    83%
DUNK  66%
DP    66%
POTN  62%
HMB   60%
FF    57%
MTB   50%

[jimbo66]

2nd fastest closing speed to Secretariat.  If that is not a crazy stat, I don\'t know what is.  

And it isn\'t like the pace was dawdling.  I haven\'t seen pace figures, but it seemed like an average early pace, which would make that closing kick incredulous to me.

[magicnight]

Jim, MTB ran 6F in about 1:15. Like P Eckhart says, MTB was running a different race. He was detached from the field.

[asfufh]

Enough already! All this talk about the predictability of his win in the KDerby is pure, unadulterated bloviating. The real question is how is he going to run in his next race. Lets move on. Onwards and upwards to the Preakness!

[toppled]

If it\'s wet & there\'s a gold rail he will win or be close.  If it\'s dry & fair, or worse if there\'s an outside bias, he turns into a pumpkin.