Rachel vs Zenyatta-Did we learn anything today?

[Silver Charm]

I think we did.

Rachel can ship around. Doesn\'t need her home track and as long she does and keeps on winning Horse of the Year is hers to lose.

Zenyatta is a winning machine but there just isn\'t that BUZZ. That is what stepping outside of the box does for you.

Jackson the owner holds the aces for now. He took Curlin out west last year when he did not have to and he has firm footing to say been there done that. No Thanks!

Not to take anything away from a filly who has won 11 inarow and carried what 128 today but they are behind the eight ball.

A win at the Spa and a win against older in the fall seals the deal for Rachel. .

[Boscar Obarra]

2.10

  Way more than t-bills and probably safer.

  Anyone catch that Arlington stake at  1 3/4 miles?  Winner opened up 25+ L, they came to him at the 1/4, and kicked away. Fun to see.

[Silver Charm]

ESPN NEWS ran some coverage of Rachel this evening and listed hext three possible starts as

The Haskel
The Whitney
The Travers

These are all against Males and one Older. Whether it happens or not people are talking about it on TV. Zenyatta got no press.

Her connections are classy but the filly can\'t crawl out of her cocoon every 30 days out west and get her just due in history.

If Rachel wins out she is a cinch for HOY and spot in history as one of the all time greats.

[covelj70]

The Arlington stake today was one of the most amusing things I have ever seen.  Wish they ran more at 1 3/4.  I got tired just watching them go around 3 turns like that.

[slewzapper]

Enough of all this BS...

Whitney - everybody who wants to be considered for HOY (Einstein, MTB) shows up, gets their due weight assignment, and hopefully the weather won\'t bias the results because wet can be as much an idiosyncratic factor to form as any synthetic surface. Five weeks away.

Then they all meet again at Santa Anita in November.

Anything else (all camps considered) is strutting around the barnyard while sitting in a stroller. Not impressed.

[chrifron]

We learned that a 3 horse race could be somewhat exciting to watch, certainly not to bet on.....

We learned that a lot of people scratch their horses when Rachel or Zenyatta are entered in a race.....

We also learned that Jerry Moss is willing to ship out of California to take on Rachel at some point in the future--if it can be arranged.....

[richiebee]

I was impressed with Rachalk and Zenyatta\'s performances.

I think they will meet on the dirt before the end of the year, but I hope it is
not a match race.

For Rachalk to be HOY without competing in the BC, she probably would have to
meet and beat older males before the end of the year.

Would love to see the following: Rachalk and the Zen Mistress, 9 furlongs at
a track where that distance is contested around 2 turns. Zen 130, Rachalk 127,
try to make sure race is Graded so others will enter for black type. There are
some other decent fillies and mares clunking around out here, like Seattle
Smooth, who is currently on a five race streak, and Music Note and Cocoa Beach,
each of whom seemed to have needed one in their returns.

This race, timing and surface wise, would have to be at Monmouth or Saratoga. I
list Monmouth first because nobody is better than the Kulina crew at inducing
major players to race at their facility.

Lastly,at this point, from what I have seen,advantage Rachalk because she has
shown that she can ship around, but more importantly because she would be a
strong factor in races shorter AND longer than the 8.5- 9 furlong distance
range which is Zenyatta\'s comfort zone.

For Rachalk to be HOY -- must beat Zenyatta PLUS defeat older males.

For Zen to be HOY -- must beat RA PLUS win BC F/M.

Moss seems to be enough of a sport to ship to take on RA, but probably not
sporting enough to run v males in BC Classic.

I hope these 2 stay sound, they are each on a path to being where they might
pass the scrutiny of even the most curmudgeonly members of the Greatness
Committee.

[Silver Charm]

Ritchie who are these MUST BEAT Males you are referring to. Not really any specific names but to me there is no one else in that division who has established themselves either.

To be one of the greatest ever however I do agree they need to beat some Males. But wait one of them has already done that and it was a Triple Crown race to boot.

The Zen Clan is behind the curve here. But they do have a much stronger Personal Public Relations Team of: Hovdey, Randolph and Schrupp

We will see if connections decide to fight this in the Press or on the Track.

[smalltimer]

Silver,
I tend to agree with you about the males, there are no Curlin\'s or Big Brown\'s around this year.  Either of these females beating the current older males adds to the resume, but does the public really care?
I think you\'ll find both Rachel and Z\'s camps taking the high road.  It\'s obvious they would love the challenge of facing the other superstar.  Since Mr. Jackson isn\'t willing to be try Rachel on plastic, at least Mr. Moss is entertaining the idea of moving Z off her best surfaces for an effort on the dirt. If I recall, the last time Zenyatta was on the dirt, it was a pretty easy W.  
I do think assigning these females 130# and 127#\'s defeats the purpose.  If you want them to both be at their best for a matchup, more likely weights should be 126/123 or even 124/121, something like that. You gotta ask yourself how appealing it would be for Moss/Shireffs to ship Zenyatta to the East Coast and then expect them to pack 130?  I\'d tell \'em to go to hell. Curlin packed 132# in the Dubai Allowance race, and 128# for the Stephen Foster, other than that he was never asked to carry more than 126#.   By the same token, why should Rachel be asked to pack 127# which would be her highest weight carried in what would/will be the biggest challenge of her racing career?  Rachel carried 122# in a 6f sprint race, but has never carried more than 121# in a horse race, so asking/expecting her to carry 127 seems unreasonable, at least to me.
Both fillies packing more weight than they\'ve ever carried makes the race less than fair for either of them.  Really great, competitive females like these 2 carrying those  high weights would just invite or increase the chance of an injury during the race.  That would be the last thing that horse racing would need in what would be a huge viewing event.  It wouldn\'t make any difference if Music Note or Cocoa Beach were packing 109-114 or so, neither would be a serious win candidate if either one of both of the big fillies run their best race.
I highly doubt Shireffs would go for a match race, that scenario favors Rachel because of her early speed.  If Shireffs exposes Zenyatta to getting beat it will be in a legitimate horse race. If they ship Zenyatta to face Rachel, it\'s because they expect to win.

[mlnolan00]

I think they want to keep Zenyatta at 8.5 or 9F.  And if the qualifications are that it be on dirt  at that dist. what about the Iselin @ MTH?  It would be 9F around 2 turns, against males(overmatched males), and the $$ is just as good as the Molly Pitcher and Go For Wand plus it\'s not a handicap.
Probably a long shot but I\'m just thinking outside the box...

Would really love to see them both run in one of my favorite races and most productive BC-prep race the Spinster, but we all know the chances of that happening...

[Flighted Iron]

Mr. Moss is entertaining the idea of moving Z off her best surfaces for an effort on the dirt


It seems it\'s been assumed she is better on synth since her connections have
raced her primarily on that surface,but Mr Moss said he lives there,so why not
race there?After all this is a business.After looking at her sheet,I\'m inclined
to say she quite possibly is better on dirt.

mjs

[imallin]

I just read that Moss won\'t ship outside Calif. He said that the BC is \'supposed to\'decide championships.

Of course, we all know that very few fans will accept that and those same fans (and hopefully the racing media) will hold it against horses who are campaigned in California exclusively on plastic tracks.

Plastic tracks are going to be the reason we don\'t see this epic battle. Would this matchup be good for racing? Of course, but synthetics are going to take that away. We will just all be left wondering, \"what if\"

[Flighted Iron]

where did you read this?

[jimbo66]

Yes, Shirreffs apparently has swung Moss over to the ridiculous path he has mapped out for Zenyatta.

At least Shirreffs is full of valid reasons for not shipping.

1.  All championships are supposed to be decided in the Breeders Cup.
2.  We \"would\' ship, if the Breeders Cup was not in California.
3.  There are \"tight turns\" at Saratoga.  (this one is new to me)
4.  The detention barns in New York are unfair to shippers.


What do we hear next?

1.  He won\'t ship to Churchill because he doesn\'t like multiple alliteration withone the name of a track.

2.  He won\'t ship to New Jersey because he wasn\'t a fan of the Sopranos.

3.  Too much crime in Florida, so shipping there is too risky....

What a shame.  I hope this guy never trains another quality horse.

[jma11473]

Jimbo, this topic certainly has you fired up---you\'ve had some impressive posts!