Zenyatta-Outstanding

[Silver Charm]

Jimbo see my post below. I dont doubt the Figs or how fast GZ was. There was just a lot of measured spots or circumstances to his career.

And when he closed his career with a win in the Met Mile he was assigned I believe 123.

That chuckle you just heard was Dr Fager and Forego not me......

[nyc1347]

he ran 2 turns 3 times and 2 of those were a negative 6.5 and then a negative 4.5 on bc day.. one of those was on at monmouth  where he came 2/5s from setting a track record in the SLOP. the thirs your missing was at Belmont. how much did he need to prove? he could go 2 turns.. he started a late campaign and wasnt involved with the derby and such..  Frankel stretched him out as time went on and it was perfect training leading up to every race.  in those races he ran against horses ranging from neg 2 to neg 6s.. thats amazing!

[nyc1347]

Zardana had a forward moving pattern and ran dirt the first time.  theres a theory out there that horses who run dirt first time pop really good ones then tail off completely.  this seems to be the case with zardana as the huge bounce to to an 8 suggests it.  zardana probably came back to an effort in between the top and the bouce race.. maybe a 3-4?   Zardanas number is what that horse ran as an individual that day and has nothing to do with Rachel..  if i were u i would check out the introduction section on here and read about the thorographs and what the numbers represent.. if u have any questions after that feel free to message me anytime.

[Footlick]

Thanks NYC.  I\'ll do that.

[miff]

Again, do the research.No question about todays nutrition BUT Dr.Fager was as large as almost any animal of today. Unlike the smaller humans of many years past compared to today,some past great horses had every bit of the same physicality of todays horse .Horses have not grown in size, proportionately, anywhere near   what humans have in the last 20-30 years.

In Pro football for example, some of the all time greats of 20-30 years past would not make any pro team today(too slow, too small)

If I knew how to attach a document to the TG site,I would post the lifetime pp\'s of Dr.Fager(let me know if there is a way) and then lets discuss Ghostzapper or whoever.


Mike

[alm]

Hey NYC, do the letters mean that you\'re from New York?  If so, I can\'t believe your complete lack of perspective.  Meaning, you should be viewing facts from a higher level than you are.  

If everything is not relative, everything is nothing.

Secretariat demolished a generation of 2 and 3yos in track record times.  Dr. Fager carried weight and demolished a couple of generations in world record time (occasionally) until they started rabbits against him and usually ONLY then did they beat him.

Ghostzapper was a nice horse and beat a lot of his generation.  He never left me breathless, however, nor many others.  Apparently you need an inhaler.

[smalltimer]

I\'ve never read any real literature, so in your opinion, should I be more impressed that you read it the first time in 3 days when you were 15, or that
you\'ve read it more than once?  Is it a book I should read?
If it will advance my intellect, I\'m all for it.
If Curtis will send me his address, sounds like the horses haven\'t been kind to him. I got plenty of dimes to spare.

[smalltimer]

I think it was 138

[TGJB]

Without jumping at the \"literature\" bait, yes, if you\'ve never read Atlas Shrugged you should. And Curtis is a semi (at least) pro horseplayer.

The three days thing was because it\'s over 1,000 pages (by memory). Liked it so much that I went out and bought the Fountainhead (700+ pages) and read it in one sitting, 13 hours, got up once to eat and once to use the john. Oh, to be young again. And/or have free time.

[nyc1347]

not taking anything at all away from those horses.  all i am saying is that its hard to project how they would do in this type of racing era with so many factors and so many faster animals.  I KNOW how GZ would do in ANY era.. hed be amazing in his prime.   Your mentioning Secretariat but BUT name others that he ran against that were AS GREAT and at that level.  When i mention ghostzapper i can name other great champions he has beat from the sprint to a distance levels.  Who has Secretariat beaten that is worth mentioning and how many grade 1 victories does he hold?

[smalltimer]

Secretariat and GZ both won 4 Grade 1\'s.

[nyc1347]

ok now tell me who Secretariat beat that was of any relevance back then.

[TGJB]

Take a look at the field for the first Marlboro Cup. As good as any BC Classic field (relative to that year), much better than the BC field GZ beat.

[smalltimer]

You shoulda told me this was a two-part question........lol

[jimbo66]

TGJB,

I don\'t kow about that.  Riva Ridge and who else in that field?

The BC Classic field that GZ beat had Birdstone (Travers and Belmont winner), Pleasantly Perfect (BC Classic winner), Azeri (a HOTY, I believe), Perfect Drift (a G1 winner), Roses in May was also a G1 winner. Funny Cide (derby winner) That was a pretty good field.