Tough Wood

[big18741]

Miff what did you think of Gemologist in the stretch after watching the head on?

[miff]

Big,

Gem may get a bi but young horses are trained to accelerate and head inside and many are just green. I think the bi or bo designations for young horses are over rated unless you know for a fact that a horse is trying to get off a stressing limb.

Did Gem really dig in or did Alpha hang late? Alpha, not one I liked going in, made multiple moves despite being roughed up early.Smallish horse ran hard, not sure he has the physical attributes to come back for the derby.Alpha trained to the dime for yesterday,Kiaran would tell you this if he was being candid.

Anyway,if I liked GEM, his wandering in would be meaningless to me unless I found out he has an issue.

Mike

[Lost Cause]

Still don\'t think Alpha (or Dominguez) was fully cranked for that race and still looked pretty good while Gemologist was fully cranked because he needed earnings..I would probably choose Alpha over Gemologist when they run back...
Not much separating all of the top horses considered for the derby.  It all comes down to post position and race setup.

[alm]

Mike

This is not a snarky question, but please tell me what you mean by brilliance.  I watched all those races and am not sure what you saw. For my part I did not think I was looking at worldbeaters.  

Al

[miff]

Al,

Nor did I, as far as world beaters but Algo and Fed Biz showed more acceleration/gears than this the grindy group of contenders,at an earlier stage.

Gemologist, for example, was completely under a ride from about the 5/16ths in the Wood and did not show anything more than a decent turn of foot, last 1/8th in  a common 13.22 with the wind, considering track speed, confirms that.Watch the race again and you will see that Gem did not really separate from the tiring pace setter, Alpha or that Dog horse after making his run.Gem did appear to get brave when Alpha came to him, thought Alpha kinda hung late.Gem obviously a major contender with 2 wins at CD, a forward look,distance breeding.

Union Rags, Alpha, Creative Cause,I\'ll Have Another also grindy.Maybe an unfair comparison but if you took their internals(not pace figs) and compare them to Algo and Fed Biz, you would know what I mean by brilliance. A surprising horse has the best internal in 2 successive races,Take Charge Indy,for what thats worth.


The SA Derby comes up a kinda light 94 Beyer for winner IHA, fig may get saved by ground.Runnerup, Creative Cause a despicable performance, perfect trip,hanging late.

The Illinois Derby winner a joke, 85 Beyer.

Great betting derby pending final preps, defections, training up, post draw.Could be the year of the slug with none of these so far showing they could overcome a  derby tough trip and still hit the board much less win.No one deserves to be less than 4-1.

Mike

[TGJB]

I agree it\'s going to be a great betting Derby, for those of us that like exotics. Because of the earnings rule there are a ton of throwouts that will take unwarranted (Derby) money-- and 10 cent supers.

I came up with at least 3 or 4 in the top 20 on earnings that will not go, obviously that picture will change next week (and possibly the week after).

[phil23]

Although O\'Brien said both his UAE horses were going, I\'d be surprised if Wrote actually shows up.  Think they\'ll only send DLL.  

This is just a massive weekend in Hotsprings for Bodimeister.  It\'s not impossible he could be very very good.  But a wide trip, even in an ultra fast time just getting nosed by say perhaps Isn\'t He Clever (running to his 0) would mean BODI sits at 260K.  The same as Mark Valeski.  Next tie breaker is non graded stakes earnings, of which they are tied.  The next, and final, tie breaker, is a shake.  If that\'s for the 20th spot, it would be one bloody important role of the dice.  

Maybe they could get Baffert and Jones to use pistols at 20 paces...

[ajkreider]

Do they take 10-cent supers on the Derby? Seems like I remember trying to make this bet a couple of years ago and being told not (Calder, I think)

There are several horses that shouldn\'t go, but probably will - like Liason, the filly (Edit: I see they\'re pointing the filly to the Oaks).  Trinniberg probably shouldn\'t go either, but if he runs like he did in the Bayshore (sub 12 second final furlong) and it\'s speed favoring, he could pull a Shakleford.

[Dave]

They don\'t do dime supers on track on Derby day.  It\'s hard to get the temp tellers to handle an exacta wheel.  If they started taking dime supers, you\'d have to place all your bets before noon.

[Lost Cause]

Dave Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They don\'t do dime supers on track on Derby day.
> It\'s hard to get the temp tellers to handle an
> exacta wheel.  If they started taking dime supers,
> you\'d have to place all your bets before noon.


Nothing more frustrating than having to tell the temp teller how to punch in a bet when they are loading the gates...

[Marlin]

I used to work the Mutuel Windows in college & I attended the Breeder\'s Cup many times, that is more of a disaster @ the windows.  Hour long lines & then tellers taking a break 4 minutes prior to post, after waiting in line 45 minutes!  Are you kidding me?  So being a former Mutuel Teller, I made her continue to work & told her to take her break only during the running of any races.  Some people are so clueless & what, can\'t see that long lines are awaiting their services. Where are the line managers?   The KY Derby seemed better for the fans in as far a betting goes, but must bet the Derby several races in advance.

OK, done venting.  I am a Living Rooms Downs fan now & will never attend a Breeders Cup again.  Hard to get food, beer & bet the races.  WOW, that is reasons I go to the races in the first place!