Author Topic: T.A.P. - J.B.  (Read 1482 times)

high roller

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T.A.P. - J.B.
« on: July 29, 2013, 04:54:44 AM »
Regarding T.A.P.- Jerry after this weekend you\'d better start \"watching\" this guy!

miff

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Re: T.A.P. - J.B.
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2013, 07:03:05 AM »
Verranzano ran 116 Beyer(like neg-4 on TG)easily fastest 3yr old performance amongst the colts this year and just about equal to DOJ\'s monstress win at Gulfstream.

TAP has ridiculous stock.
miff

miff

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Re: T.A.P. - J.B.
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2013, 07:11:03 AM »
For the conspiracy minded.

Steve Allday:

\"Always a privilege to work on good horses. Racing at Saratoga & Monmouth Park was special this weekend.
Very proud to have helped!\"
miff

bstaubs22

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Re: T.A.P. - J.B.
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2013, 09:08:39 AM »
Don\'t forget Allday client D.Romans was able to finally get Silver Max to the winners circle.

catcapper

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Re: T.A.P. - J.B.
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2013, 02:30:05 PM »
Guys, at what point do the horses get credit?

I personally do believe there is a serious problem with the overuse/abuse of medications in racing, but raw talent should still be acknowledged and the drugs can only do so much. They do not ultimately overcome genetics. And that does not condone their use/abuse. I think the biggest problem is in the lower classes of racing, but that is beside the point here.

Verazzano is just a fine specimen where no expense is spared, yes. Adjectives aside, the horse deserves some credit.

Fairmount1

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Re: T.A.P. - J.B.
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2013, 08:05:58 PM »
Shouldn\'t the healthy, \"best\" stock in the country need little \"work\" or \"help\" from the vet?  I thought trainers were the geniuses behind these \"great\" animals...Not some guy that wants credit for his involvement in success stories.

Not conspiracy minded here. Just want more info on the vet\'s involvement in all races these days. Thanks to this vet for helping my view there is more info I should know as a bettor.

kekomi

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Re: T.A.P. - J.B.
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2013, 12:57:01 PM »
you\'re so very wrong about drugs not overcoming genetics.

the favorite line back in he 90s by the doping deniers in cycling was, \"you can\'t turn a mule into a thoroughbred.\" but that is exactly what happened--fat cyclists who couldn\'t even finish the tour de france before EPO (like one recently exposed fraud), were flying up mountains, making the tiny columbians--the best climbers in the world before EPO-- look like out of shape non-atheletes trying to get their bikes over speed bumps.

greg lemond, who was probably the most genetically gifted person to ever pedal a bike, couldn\'t even hold the wheels of domestiques in the early 90s; and andy hampsted, the best natural climber america has ever produced (and one of the best climbers of all time, dropped out in the middle of race, walking away from the sport forever in the early 90s, and all he said when asked why, and he only said it once, was\"what\'s the use?\"

just like in cycling, you\'ll never know which horses are the natural talents now. but unlike in cycling, these artificial talents are creating whole generations of untalented horses, who will dominate the sport due to chemists, not genetics.

the thing i\'ve tried to stress in my posts about this here is that doping does not confer its benefits equally. the benefits for the genetically superior are almost non-existent; but for the genetically unfit, the benefits are astronomical, because there is a ceiling to improvement. if you are born near or at that ceiling, you have no where to go, and doping only keeps you in the race, plus the lack of results, reduces the incentive to dope. where as with he mules, the incredible results turns you into a fiend who dopes year long, thus reaping the benefits of doping during training (which are significant).

the belmont woke shug up--he knew what his horse could do against this crop in a field closely monitored for doping, and he saw what his horse couldn\'t do, but almost did, against this crop in field where he was only one of two clean horses in the race. that\'s why orb has been at fairhill all summer--hyperbaric treatments do promote healing, but more than that they increase the body\'s ability to process oxygen--just like EPO. he\'s trying to give his horse a fighting chance.

orb\'s belmont should be heralded as one of, if not the, best perfomances all year--instead he\'s mocked for it. it sickens me--but i applaud shug. he\'s too classy to call out those he knows are cheating, but he\'s trying to level the playing field in the only way he can without actually resorting to doping himself. i don\'t know if it will be enough; after watching the whitney yesterday, i\'ve started to think i have to walk away from this sport too.

make no mistake doping--any kind of doping, no matter how small--is cheating. and like andy said, in sport dominated by cheating, what\'s the use?

Fairmount1

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Re: T.A.P. - J.B.
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2013, 01:14:13 PM »
These oxygen treatments/chambers---are they being used to provide more oxygen?  Or are they being used to lessen the oxygen amounts (similar to training in high altitude) and then returning the horse out of the chamber to the racetrack soon after where they run in increased oxygen amounts?

Rich Curtis

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Re: T.A.P. - J.B.
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2013, 01:56:10 PM »
Kekomi wrote:

\"the thing i\'ve tried to stress in my posts about this here is that doping does not confer its benefits equally. the benefits for the genetically superior are almost non-existent; but for the genetically unfit, the benefits are astronomical, because there is a ceiling to improvement. if you are born near or at that ceiling, you have no where to go, and doping only keeps you in the race, plus the lack of results, reduces the incentive to dope. where as with he mules, the incredible results turns you into a fiend who dopes year long, thus reaping the benefits of doping during training (which are significant).\"

Would you make this statement about strength sports such as weightlifting?

Boscar Obarra

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Re: T.A.P. - J.B.
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2013, 03:54:43 PM »
Todays poetry corner, in the 8th

 Tevis to Todd and got the nod.

 ok, more like 5 lengths. fooled maggie.

JoseOcon

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Re: T.A.P. - J.B.
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2013, 08:32:14 PM »
I do power lifting and I am a firm believer that genetically gifted people will perform a lot better if they dope (and train hard).  Also unfit people who use drugs needs to train a lot to perform, is not just that easy.

I am natural and I would like to compete, but there is no chance for me to win. I see the drug abuse totally unfair and at the end it will degrade the humane race (or the horses) and will make us weaker. The only power-lift contest I can have an succeed is against myself.

miff

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Re: T.A.P. - J.B.
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2013, 07:52:57 AM »
\"Would you make this statement about strength sports such as weightlifting\"

Horse racing has strength as a major component.Prior to banning certain steroids,a few years back,you could look at many horses and see that steroid look,thick thru the chest and neck especially. Most of TAP\'s runners and other major outfits,looked that way back then vs what they look like now.
miff

Rich Curtis

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Re: T.A.P. - J.B.
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2013, 09:20:19 AM »
Miff,

You are right about the horses, of course, and Jose is right about powerlifting (a sport I was immersed in).

Anybody who would take the quoted comments of Kekomi\'s and claim they apply to sports like weightlifting is, to put it simply, a charlatan who would be laughed out of any weightlifting gym in the US.

miff

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Re: T.A.P. - J.B.
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2013, 10:30:21 AM »
Rich,

Dont know the science but muscle mass x velocity x blah blah blah equals speed. Its pretty much common sense that if you can increase muscle,you increase strength and in the case of a horse,speed.

Many of the supplements around the backside allege to revolve around just that and joint health,very liberally used.



Mike
miff

cubfan0316

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Re: T.A.P. - J.B.
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2013, 06:03:19 PM »
don\'t you think after 50 years these trainers got it figured out? im sure they have tried numerous muscle building techniques by now. the only way you can make a horse run 5 seconds faster in 2 weeks is drugs, or pull the thorn out of his hoof.
mel