Frankel

[basket7777]

how  does this help me use the sheets and handicap for a profit?

[HP]

\"I\'m in the camp that great baseball players from 1910-1950 eras would not be physically talented enough to be ballboys today, given how much bigger/stronger/faster the humans of today are vs those of 60 to 100 years ago.\"

This is a BIG generalization.  You honestly believe this is true of Lou Gehrig and Hank Greenberg?  Lacking in PHYSICAL talent?  As I said before, on AVERAGE, okay they are bigger and stronger.  The best of the best could hold their own.  

I shook hands with Gil Hodges once.  Started playing in 1943.  I think he would be physically talented enough to go beyond ballboy today.  I think he could throw half of the current Mets team right across a room.  

HP

[richiebee]

Hard to judge what the true quality of Major League Baseball was pre 1950 given the large number of talented players who were excluded from the game...

[plasticman]

Tom Seaver would do fine vs todays hitters the first time thru the order. But, the reason that the Seavers of yesteryear were able to throw complete game after complete game is because the hitters were so far inferior to what you have today, he was able to let those hitters see him 3 or 4 times per game and still get them out in the 8th and 9th inning.

[magicnight]

At the time of his retirement, Seaver was third on the all-time strikeout list (3,640), trailing only Nolan Ryan and Steve Carlton. No major league pitcher ever has matched his feat of striking out ten consecutive batters.[6] His career average of 6.85 strikeouts per nine innings is second only to Nolan Ryan (9.55)of any Hall of Famer with at least 300 wins. Seaver\'s lifetime ERA of 2.86 was third among starting pitchers in the Live Ball Era, behind only Whitey Ford (2.73) and Sandy Koufax (2.76). (Jim Palmer and Andy Messersmith both have a career earned run average of 2.86 as well.) Seaver also holds the record for consecutive 200-strike-out seasons with nine (1968–1976). Seaver\'s 61 career shutouts are second only to Warren Spahn (63) in the Live Ball Era. His career win-loss record percentage of .603 is one of the highest of any Hall of Fame pitcher with 300 wins in the Live Ball Era, and his record of 7.84 hits per nine innings is second only to Nolan Ryan (6.56) for all Hall of Fame pitchers with at least three hundred wins, and first among all HOF pitchers in any era with 300 wins, 3000 strikeouts, and a winning percentage of .600 or better.

per wikipedia

[HP]

Seaver pitched a complete game shutout in 1985 at age 40.  How you could imagine he\'d be IN HIS PRIME and done in by today\'s hitters is beyond me.  He wasn\'t pitching in 1920!  He probably could\'ve shut out the Mets last night.  

HP

[FrankD.]

Before one of the 1978 World Series games between the Yankees & Dodgers Sandy Koufax was pitching batting practice to the Dodger hitters. Cey, Garvey, Baker all drilled a few BP fastballs into the stands and the competitive juices started to flow in the retired for 12 years, arthritic 42 year old Koufax.

He started snapping off his 12/6 curve ball; Cey, Garvey, Baker, Lopes etc. all came up for their 5 swings and misses, no one touched a ball. Tommy Lasorda came running out of the dugout screaming at Sandy to stop throwing his curveball
\" It\'s the f-----g World Series your going to put all my hitters in a slump\" was the managers plea. Koufax grinned, tipped his cap to the manager and walked off the mound.

Frank D.

[sekrah]

Seaver would do fine today.  It\'s not that far removed from his time.  He had an electric slider and pinpoint control.  He\'d still be the ace for ALOT of teams today.

[sekrah]

Frank,

Koufax was the beginning of the modern pitcher IMO.   Before him most pitchers were pretty vanilla pitchers with just 2 good offerings.   Koufax developed 4 elite pitches and after him guys really started working on adding more to their repertoires.

[FrankD.]

Sekrah,

You mean like Marino Rivera and his extensive pitch repertoire?

Greatness is greatness it will transcend any era: Williams, DiMaggio, Mays, Mantle, Aaron, Ruth, Gehrig, Greenburgh, Cobb and many more would have been great whenever they played.

I agree overall that in the pitchers category of old greats that few would make the roll call and the Phil Rizutto\'s, Pee Wee Reese\'s of the old days would not have a place in today\'s game.

Frank D.

[sekrah]

FrankD. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sekrah,
>
> You mean like Marino Rivera and his extensive
> pitch repertoire?
>
> Greatness is greatness it will transcend any era:
> Williams, DiMaggio, Mays, Mantle, Aaron, Ruth,
> Gehrig, Greenburgh, Cobb and many more would have
> been great whenever they played.
>
> I agree overall that in the pitchers category of
> old greats that few would make the roll call and
> the Phil Rizutto\'s, Pee Wee Reese\'s of the old
> days would not have a place in today\'s game.
>
> Frank D.


Relievers only need 1 or 2 great pitches to be successful.  It\'s why I said Walter Johnson would make a great reliever today.  Starters need at the minimum, 3 good pitches to succeed today.

Yes those hitters you mentioned would be great today, but the numbers they compiled would be nowhere near as good as they are.  The pitching depth is simply greater.

[FrankD.]

Inclined to agree with you on career numbers with hitters who faced the same pitcher 4 & 5 times in a game as opposed to relief specialists of today.

We could go on all day and there is validity on most points in both directions so I\'ll stop it here with one final thought.

Give me Clemente in right, Mays in center & TGAB in left field and its still the best outfield I\'ve ever seen!!!

Frank D.

[miff]

\"Ruth\'


Come\'on Frank, Ruth was a fat, slow, drunk.... great against todays athletes?, he\'d bat under 200 if he could make the team.


Mike

[sekrah]

miff Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> \"Ruth\'
>
>
> Come\'on Frank, Ruth was a fat, slow, drunk....
> great against todays athletes?, he\'d bat under 200
> if he could make the team.
>
>
> Mike

This is ludicrous.  Babe Ruth swung a 54 oz bat 75 mph.  He could hit off anyone, anytime, anywhere.

[FrankD.]

Mike,

A respectful disagreement simply for the fact that he accomplished things in his time that had never been done before.He raised the bar for sure both on and off the field and let\'s not forget he was on his way to a hall of fame pitching career (for his time) before his switch to the outfield.

Also he was not as slow as he looked; Bill Spillane had him 1- going first to third on early parchment sheets.

Good luck,

Frank D.